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Lost in the forest...time for a C4 rebuild

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Old 04-18-2020, 08:46 PM
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F/51 LRS
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OCD kicked in. Getting ready for the next step.
Old 04-19-2020, 09:14 AM
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cobalt
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I have my engine out and it checked out with 4-6% leak down Was really hoping it needed a rebuild so I could split the case and do ITB's. Since it is totally fine I will just do the obvious. I am working with some engineers and we will be making some minor changes and burning our own chip. We expect to see about a 15% increase in power from this but will only know once we have it on the dyno. Already have base line showing factory numbers about 500 miles ago so we will see what we come up with.

GL
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cobalt
I have my engine out and it checked out with 4-6% leak down Was really hoping it needed a rebuild so I could split the case and do ITB's. Since it is totally fine I will just do the obvious. I am working with some engineers and we will be making some minor changes and burning our own chip. We expect to see about a 15% increase in power from this but will only know once we have it on the dyno. Already have base line showing factory numbers about 500 miles ago so we will see what we come up with.

GL
Total first world problems we're having here! I'm curious to see how the chip affects your performance, that's a significant gain! I'd love to go Motec (even on current engine configuration), but can't stomach the cost for it.
Old 04-20-2020, 09:15 AM
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cobalt
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Originally Posted by jburroughs12
Total first world problems we're having here! I'm curious to see how the chip affects your performance, that's a significant gain! I'd love to go Motec (even on current engine configuration), but can't stomach the cost for it.

Totally, But I have always been prepared for crazy stuff like this and my wife no longer thinks i am crazy. At least about stockpiling food, water and other necessities.

Motec is great but everything is ala carte. For a fraction of the price the Haltech will do a very good job. These systems are only as good as the person programing them. Haltech is coming out with a new line soon and although the 2500 elite has great resolution, dual knock sensors, Dual wide band O2 and more the new systems are supposed to be even better but pricing and product aren't released yet.

I will say that a chipped 993 TT N/A engine using motronic on low boost showed 335 whp on and torque on our mustang dyno with adding the haltech we easily saw 450 whp and tq and that was just the start.
Old 04-20-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cobalt
Totally, But I have always been prepared for crazy stuff like this and my wife no longer thinks i am crazy. At least about stockpiling food, water and other necessities.

Motec is great but everything is ala carte. For a fraction of the price the Haltech will do a very good job. These systems are only as good as the person programing them. Haltech is coming out with a new line soon and although the 2500 elite has great resolution, dual knock sensors, Dual wide band O2 and more the new systems are supposed to be even better but pricing and product aren't released yet.

I will say that a chipped 993 TT N/A engine using motronic on low boost showed 335 whp on and torque on our mustang dyno with adding the haltech we easily saw 450 whp and tq and that was just the start.
Those are some impressive numbers!
I'm familiar with Haltech and Microtech from my RX-7 days. I'll have to see what local tuners (with AWD dynos) are comfortable with. But, in the mean-time, just have to get the engine back together.
Old 04-20-2020, 09:48 AM
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To bad you aren't local I have access to an AWD mustang. The newer haltech aren't like the ones of years ago. They have really stepped up their game.
Old 04-21-2020, 12:23 AM
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We got the heads and cam towers in tonight, pretty straight forward but took our time to make sure everything was CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN and done properly.




Also I installed a Griffith's A/C compressor and EPS fan/shroud on the SC.


This is what the inside of the original magnesium shroud looked like after one of the POs had it welded/"repaired" a couple times.


Next up all of the cam work! Needed to borrow a mechanical rocker arm to set the cam timing (one of the drawbacks of the hydraulic lifters), thanks to one of our local PCA guys I'll be picking that up tomorrow.
Anyway, it's time for a glass of wine, relaxing for a few on the couch, then hitting the sack!
Old 04-21-2020, 01:00 AM
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Looking great! I’m in the process of cleaning the cam towers at this very moment. Any tips? I noticed that you pulled all the studs.

Pete
Old 04-21-2020, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Peteinjp
Looking great! I’m in the process of cleaning the cam towers at this very moment. Any tips? I noticed that you pulled all the studs.

Pete
Thanks, Pete! I pulled the exhaust studs because they were aftermarket and had little smooth "crowns" on them, which made it really difficult to access under the heat exchangers, so I am reinstalling the OEM ones.

As far as cleaning goes, my process was:
  1. Power wash the cam towers to get all of the big/solid/goopy dirty oil off as possible
  2. Simple Green with rags
  3. Simple Green with a toothbrush
  4. Brake Cleaner with a toothbrush
  5. I had a fair amount of build up, not sure if it was carbon or Loctite 574 around every edge, so I made sure to clean all of that up
  6. Take a razor blade and CAREFULLY scrape the mating surfaces clean. I was amazed at how many little things were still stuck on the cam towers
  7. More brake cleaner
  8. Blow it all out with compressed air.
Old 04-21-2020, 10:09 AM
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Total brain fart on the studs. I don't remember off the top of my head, but they either all backed out of the cam towers or there were actual bolts through the valve covers.
If your studs are in good shape, I would definitely leave them in.
Old 04-21-2020, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jburroughs12
Thanks, Pete! I pulled the exhaust studs because they were aftermarket and had little smooth "crowns" on them, which made it really difficult to access under the heat exchangers, so I am reinstalling the OEM ones.

As far as cleaning goes, my process was:
  1. Power wash the cam towers to get all of the big/solid/goopy dirty oil off as possible
  2. Simple Green with rags
  3. Simple Green with a toothbrush
  4. Brake Cleaner with a toothbrush
  5. I had a fair amount of build up, not sure if it was carbon or Loctite 574 around every edge, so I made sure to clean all of that up
  6. Take a razor blade and CAREFULLY scrape the mating surfaces clean. I was amazed at how many little things were still stuck on the cam towers
  7. More brake cleaner
  8. Blow it all out with compressed air.
I have used PLASTIC razor blades with Permatex Gasket Remover. Worked really well on cleaning up the cam towers. A little Loctite 270 on the studs, using the double nut method to thread them in. Torqued to 5ft lbs
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:49 AM
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We were all ready to get the timing side of the engine buttoned up to set the cam timing, then realized we didn't have the little top hat bushings or roll pins for the long chain ramps. Not a big deal, I'll just get some overnighted so we can get that part of the build wrapped up tomorrow night.

What really irks me, though, is that the poor SOB previous owner spent ~$15K to get the engine rebuilt in the late 90s only to have the shop NOT put these parts in. So, the car was driven 20 years and many track days under my ownership with the long chain ramps not actually secured on the cam end.

Granted, nothing exploded and the ramps looked in fine condition when I pulled them. But, still, do the job right people! Especially if you're going to charge for it.

Rant over, parts will be ordered once a couple places open up and I can confirm they can ship today for tomorrow.
Old 04-22-2020, 09:51 AM
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I believe Rob told me those roll pins walked out on his car and he found them on the drain plug...
Old 04-22-2020, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by r-mm
I believe Rob told me those roll pins walked out on his car and he found them on the drain plug...
I also didn't have the top hat style bushings in there, either.

They could have fallen out, but I wouldn't think the whole kit and kaboodle would have.
Old 04-24-2020, 09:44 AM
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Got some more work done on the car last night. I picked up the roll pins and little top hats for the long chain ramps, MUCH more comfortable and confident in them now than when they were flopping around in there. Got the cams installed, along with the gear assembly, and measured. The left side is within .003" (.07mm) and the right side is exact, so looking good there; though both sides only used 3 shims which I thought was interesting considering everything I've read says to start with 4 shims. Oh well, the caliper doesn't lie. I got the new o-ring and seal installed on the power steering pump and bolted that to the back of the engine.

My buddy was working on one of his bikes and sent me this picture:


So, of course I had to respond in kind:



Next up, cam timing! I spoke with Dema at Elgin cams about the 993 "sport" cams I have looks like I should see 1.5mm of lift with my hydraulic lifters/cams. More to report later.
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