NM'87 951

If the 944 is set up so perfect, why are all the main performance cars of Porsche set up to be mid/rear engine models (save the panamera and cayenne)? To be different than others, Porsche decided to keep the design that was different than the others?

333pg333

Well to add, he's writing from England. All cars rust over there. The difference being that possibly some owners of 928's are older and fatter and have nice garages to keep them in. The 944 would live on the street and drive around more often on salt covered roads that destroy all the Pommy cars I've ever seen.

The other point about them being constructed from the VW parts bin...it's partially true. That only exemplifies how good the basic design is. With all these supposed second rate parts and pre war design just imagine how fast a 3L 16v turbo 9xx with decent suspension could have been!! You could have given the 928gts any form of advantage/headstart in a race and it would still have been lapped easily. Pity....

Cheburator

I am not a throll - as a matter of fact I own a 944 Turbo S race car... It is great, relatively cheap platform to do amateur motorsport in, and most importantly, there are lot of resources out there... Perhaps, I am just not as blinkered as many on here appear to be, thus I am not afraid to speak out what is sometimes uncomfortable truth...

Funny you should say that to a guy who used to own a 914 at some point... Sadly many 944s found for sale in the UK and mainland Europe are complete rust buckets... I am sure they fare much better in the dry Cali climate. However, just like the E30 M3 and the Lancia Delta Integralle or 964, they rust quite badly when living in the damp Western European air or driven on Europe's salted roads in the Winter... Or is that not true again and you know better than us? And one of the main reason 944Ts start at less than $4k in the UK for dogs?

333pg333

Oh, and here's a daily driven 1986 951 with full leather interior, heating, a/c, music etc in front of a 4Ltr 996 RSR on Michelin slicks. Drives to work every day then once a month or so, drives to the track, beats up on racecars and drives home in air conditioned comfort.

fred27

A picture is worth a thousand words........
I continue to enjoy driving our cars that are made from the VW parts bin

Cheburator

I am not sure whether you are serious? Do you drive the track or do you race there? Kind of different, non? If you tell me that your full leather, air-coned 944T is quicker than a 4.0ltr RSR, then Porsche and Manthey have clearly missed a trick... As a matter of fact, they should employ you to head their LMP1 return... Heck, I am sure my favourite Aussie driver would be qucker around Le Mans in your car than if they bothered with the protos...

P.S. Love the banter... But let's be realistic just a little bit, or being upside down all the time interferes with that?

333pg333

Didn't actually say it beat the RSR...just a play on words. Not my car or me driving it either. However it seems to do quite well against a 997 GT2RS (said to be quite rapid I'm lead to believe?), and yes, this car is as described. Daily driven in comfort and capable of some pretty decent times in some pretty heady and very expensive company.

Agreed on the banter. It is exactly that. I've actually always said that these cars would have garnered a lot more respect if they were released with 4 Rings on the bonnet. As it is, I stand by my point that in spite of the lack of real development from the factory they are capable of punching well above their weight.

Select HD for your viewing pleasure.

blade7

Quiet day on Pistonheads . I love the shape and presence of the GTS but they seem to be in the same bracket as the BMW 840, very expensive cruisers.

fejjj

Luis,

Thank you for posting the article!

Best cars (2 89's and 1 86) I have owned.

Oddjob

An '86 Turbo S? There was one?

I live in Minnesota (anyone dumb enough to live here, will not make the claim to know better than anyone else...), where the weather and road conditions are more severe than most of Europe, certainly more so than the UK. If you daily drive a 944 thru the winter here for 20+ years, you will see right thru it, just like a 911 or 928. Same body panel prep and paints were used on 944s as any of the other production porsches of the same vintage. None are Deloreans.

Reality is that the post mid-70s porsches actually hold up quite well compared to most other cars. It was decades later for some of the other manufacturers to go to the E-coatings and other corrosion protection for body panels.

User 52121

Always entertaining seeing the "sibling rivalry" here amongst the Porsche ownership family. I deal with this same crap amongst my circle of friends though it's always 944 vs. 911...

I think that, at this point, it's just as much a marketing decision as it is an engineering/performance one. The 911 shape is iconic, it's synonymous with Porsche. That same basic shape has been around for 50 years... it's part of the company identity. To kill off the 911 or change it's basic architecture, to make it NOT the flagship, would be in effect killing off or altering the core company identity.

The 944 is much easier to drive at the limit than the 911 of the era, and in all but the most expert of hands, faster. I'd argue that the same is true of the new models today - the Cayman is a MUCH better DRIVER'S car than the 911. I think it's a safe bet that anyone who isn't a die-hard 911-only guy, that has driven both, will agree. The image conscious guys who aren't die-hard sports car fans are the ones that consider the Cayman/Boxster the "girls car". I had a chat with one of our lead sales guys here at the office the other day, he was asking me about Porsche and what kind of Porsche I had. When I said the 944, he said, "oh cool a classic... I thought you were going to say the lame Boxster..." He was genuinely surprised to hear me tell him that, IMO, the Boxster/Cayman is one of the best driver's cars (aside from the GT models of course) that Porsche makes.

Porsche has to sell cars to stay in business.

lart951

Easy on him, besides being Brutish he also owns a 92ghey that's a double fail, is not his fault.

lart951

That is such analogy, imagine the engineers reporting to Dr Porsche, sir our tests conclusively demonstrate that the 951 front engine design provides a greater advantage over the rear. I do not care what tests prove, i want a race car with a rear engine just like my original beetle, we must cease to develop the front engine designs and emphasized in the 911, we must convince future generations that it's better.

Now the analogy

Fuehrer, our tests conclusively...........that the ME262 serves the role of a fighter........I do not care what tests shows I am the Fuehrer i want to be a bomber.

NM'87 951

I really like conversing about Porsche. I've always loved the look, and the 'understated' performance from the smaller engines (non v10's and v12's). I've always heard they were better driving, and while my only experience is with the 944, I'll have to attest they are a great driving car.

I should be perfectly clear, i've never driven the mid engine (or rear engine) lay outs that porsche offers. I've never considered the boxster/cayman a girls car, just thought they were the kinda generic porsche offered to people who just want to be seen with the badge. I'll have to seek out someone with one, and ask if they want to trade for a day now. I'd really like to see what I'm missing.

Did Porsche want to maintain it's distinct identity in the 'supercar' market, by keeping the flagship rear engine lay out, and using v6's and v8's to do their dirty work? At the time, were they competing with lambo and ferrari, looking to deliver a different product that could try to claim similar peformance? I think I've always wondered what led Porsche to take on the task of continually improving a redesigned "wheel", so to speak, instead of just using the one everyone else did.

lee101315

930s are cool cars... The handling was difficult to master, but they had a lot of potential when they were setup right. Lart doesnt like them because he cant buy them in auctions or off of craigslist for $2000 and part them out A running beat up 930 wont go for less than 25k, coincidentally what a concours condition 951 would go for with ultra low mileage.

Why are we always fighting amongst ourselves? You want light? You can strip an aircooled 911 or 914 to around 2000lbs easily, and even more if you want. Good luck getting the 'big boned' 951 down below 2400 lbs.

928s have a superior rear suspension and gear box design. The engines were ahead of their time as well. I'd never buy one, I dont like them.

If you love your 951 like I do, just enjoy it and stop comparing it to everything else, because it was, still is, and will always be a great car. Ive spent the better part of two years restoring mine.

As for detuning, my father imported an early 85 turbo, back in 1985 to the USA while its was a good business to sell grey market cars. It was in the family for 6 or 7 years. He told me that the standard USA models were slow by comparison, so maybe the 951s were detuned....