URG8RB8

Anybody tried this product on a 951 or any other car they own? Looks like a nice product, but would like to get some real world opinions.

http://www.gopurepower.com/site/prod...lt.asp#FILTERS

alxdgr8

Looks like it's about $200?
If it's as good as a regular filter, that's about 30 Mahle filters.
So it would take 30 oil changes for it to make it's money back. On a daily driver, that about 6+ years. On a 951 that's driven on nice days, that's probably 10-15 years. For most people, I doubt it would make sense. Maybe if it offered something more than a conventional filter, but it looks like it's got the usual K&N advertising. More flow via less (but supposedly adequate) filtration.
I'd want to see some long term oil analysis results before using one.

URG8RB8

Fortunately I am in a position that the cost is not an issue to me. I am more concerned with function and then looks. If it flows more and filters better than I would be happy. I will put less than 1000 miles a year on the car so a normal would could last me a very long time! Funny I said that though, because I just griped about spending $20 a quart on some super nano technology Millers Oil.

This could be advertising propaganda, but sounds reasonable to me:
American Made 6061 T6 CNC Machined Forged Billet Aluminum Housing and Bypass; Stainless Steel Dual Woven Filter Media; the highest grade Mil-Spec Viton® O-rings on all sealing surfaces. Superior in design, quality, workmanship, and Aerospace spec CNC machining. The ONLY cleanable oil filter to be manufactured from AMERICAN Certified 6061 T6, Cold Finished, Billet material, the finest quality stainless steel filter media and extreme high temperature Aerospace ceramic investment material; Two Neodymium magnets located on each side of the filter media. Each magnet is rated to capture up to 16 Oz of ferrous metal and has a larger magnetic field area to lower surface tension for smoother oil flow. "J" cut threads and a starting thread to prevent cross threading.

Pure Power! Lifetime Oil Filter Systems® are the most technologically advanced oil filtration system available. This revolutionary technology consists of multiple patent pending designs for oil filters in a form designed to deliver superior filtration and yet be cleanable and reusable for the lifecycle of the engine. Outstanding quality, American made, 6061 T-6 Billet aluminum housing is designed, engineered and manufactured to last the lifetime of your car, truck, boat or equipment. Deep pleated, duplex woven T304 Stainless Steel filter media has the largest amount of filter area available and provides for “One-pass” absolute filtering. Cleaner oil provides longer engine life, longer oil life, better fuel economy and lower emissions. Maximum oil flow volume doubles the flow of filtered oil. O-rings are Viton®, the ultimate in durable sealing ability. Results from SAE Testing performed at Southwest Research Institute on our smallest filter: Flow Rate: SAE HS806 2001 Tested: 20+ gpm Burst Rate: SAE HS806 Ch 9C Tested: 1,000 psi (10 min. no distortion or leakage) Filtration: SAE J1858 Tested: 90% more efficient than "throw away" filters. Easy installation. No special tools needed. Remove cannister and easily monitor the engine condition. Clean in parts vat or field clean with soap and water. Simple spin-on direct replacement or unique remote models. Guaranteed best fit and NO LEAKS! Helps to protect our environment by eliminating the used oil filter waste stream. (No disposal charges). Through superior filtration, Pure Power! Lifetime Oil Filter Systems can help extend oil drain intervals, thereby reducing the used oil waste stream. The Original Billet Oil Filter, nothing like it, nothing out performs it.

67King

I don't think you'd need long term testing on it, I think you could do a couple of changes, as long as they had similar drive cycles, you could look for wear metals in the oil analysis.

That said, when I look at this, it screams to me "fleet" applications. If they change hte oil frequently, it would make economic sense. But more importantly, if a place maintains a lot of fleet vehicles, they have to keep a lot of different style filters on hand, which takes up space and resources to manage. Changing over to this system would drive out a lot of non-material cost.

I'm not certain about the claim that the oil doens't flow through the paper filter (on the brochure link). That seems counter to everything I have ever heard/seen/known about them. That said, I would expect that for the same size orifice, the stainless mesh would do a better job, as the wear metal would want to stick to metal through van der waals forces.

I see a couple of weaknesses to it. If you do frequent analyses, and don't get the filter media completely cleaned, it could affect your results. The other is that if you for some reason need to cut apart a filter to investigate, I'm not sure how you'd do that.

URG8RB8

Harry:

I managed to get today off and have spent quite a bit of time on the internet today trying to get a solid opinion of this product. There honestly is not that much posted about it. I have a feeling they are having a hard time selling such an expensive filter. However, of all the things I have read, this article from a circle track magazine had the most useful information. At least for me, as the main thing I am concerned with is its ability to flow and fine particle filtration.

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetec...s/viewall.html

One thing is for sure, it is built like a brick sh*# house.

What I did learn about conventional filters is all of them can't filter oil upon startup at low temperatures, especially in the case of 20-50W which is what most of us run. Until normal operating temperatures are reached almost 100% of the flow is through the bypass valve which is totally unfiltered oil! This is not good especially for a new build. With that being said though, I realize 99.9% of all engines in recent history have been completed using a conventional spin on filter. So go figure???
I could not find any proof that after warm-up the oil doesn't flow through the filter media on conventional filters. There were many references that it does in fact function like this, but no concrete proof. There is a huge difference in types of media and amount of surface area and/or pleats. From my readings, Mahle is one of the better units, which is good since most of us use this filter. Believe it or not the K&N is also highly rated for both filtration and quality of internals, with Wix and Purolator Pure One also having good ratings. There are a couple good videos on Youtube showing the internals of almost every filter available.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/...sigb=12d7rk9hb

I found what I would consider an infomercial in favor of PurePower and their Oils, but in my opinion almost killed my opinion of the supposable Chemical Engineer founder Kelly Tidwell. Please read the link below on his oil recommendations and give me your opinion on his suggestions. Again, I have no idea if he really made these comments or not.

http://www.epinions.com/content_5153071236?sb=1

His credentials appear to be sound though, and he is a tribologist :

Kelly Tidwell is the Vice President and Co-Founder of Pure Power! Incorporated. He is in charge of Research & Development of new products, laboratory and field-testing, quality assurance, and industry standards and regulations. Formerly, he was the President and Co-Founder of S.T.D. Enterprises, Inc. In the 70’s and early 80’s Mr. Tidwell was the Manager of Product Development for Turbo International of Houston, TX where he designed, patented and was the first to receive a California Air Resources Board Certification of a turbo system for automobiles, trucks and motorhomes. He holds multiple mechanical and liquid process patents, is a Member of Who’s Who of Inventors, a member of the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers, and has been a consultant for many Fortune 500 companies such as General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Winnebago and Pace Arrow/Southwind. Mr. Tidwell is a former World Champion Drag Racer and served two tours of duty with S.O.F. in Vietnam.

URG8RB8

Found another more recent article on VetteWeb which again alludes too but doesn't fully state that the oil flows over and not through traditional media. The pictures are nice in this article though.

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_11...r/viewall.html

Older one:

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_06...r/viewall.html

Article from Rod & Custom Magazine where he states oil reccomendations:

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/...s/viewall.html

Please note: I have since found information that supports oil must flow through the filter media. See post #8.

DFASTEST951

Well, I've been here on these boards since 99'. I often feel dumb for the fact that I can't wrench on my car like many other here.

With that said, I would consider myself an expert on this subject. Pure Power Filters in Particular. So here's not just my .02, but factual information. You might wanna take a seat.

I got into the diesel world over the last several years. They are the latest thing in hot rodding. I came across Pure Power Filters when Diesel Power did an article on them. They put one of their filters in a 2007 stock Duramax. It flowed so easily that the truck gained 4hp and 9lb tq just from switching to the oil filter! It was because the standard paper media filter is so restricting. That means it's restricting your car as well. So I started studying and investigating deeply into these filters vs the standard paper filters everyone else uses.

Now, first off, all paper media companies in business today use a standard of filtration method called "nominal filtration". That means that it's micron rating is determined by the fuel/oil that passes over, not through the media. After testing, if that filter catches particles as low as 10 micron, then that's a 10 micron rated filter. However, the percentage of oil that passes over the media to catch said particles is, at best, only 17%. At best. The rest of the dirty fuel/oil, goes right back into the motor.

I took apart a paper media filter myself. You can't see through it. You can see light slightly through it. You cannot blow through it. I stretched it out, and put a few drops of oil on it to see if it would soak through. After over a week, it took a blow torch and I started to singe the paper to get it to seep through. And it still didn't drip though.

Pure Power, and Scott's Filters use a method of filtration that's called "Absolute Filtration", meaning it measures the amount of oil that directly passes through the media in their filters. Pure Power Filters had been tested to filter 98% of all fuel/oil on first pass at 30 microns. Now, the human eye can only see about as low as 100 micron. That's the width of a human hair. Wait, it gets better. As the filter continues to filter, those holes start to immediately fill up and get smaller. This process is called sintering. As this happens, the particles being caught are reduced to as small as one micron.

Every single Nascar team today, without exception, has a pure power filter in it's car. Even if it's sponsored by Fram or Wix. Sometimes you can even see the inline filter behind the driver on the car. I called the helicopter touring companies here in town. They all use them as well. The tech told me that if you break down on the road, you pull over. If you break down in the air, it's just over. They also just signed a contract with Boeing to supply the entire fleet. And even before Pure Power, they were using a similar filter by another company.

I have these filters on my Ford Super Duty with 600 hp and 1,000lb tq. Oil and Fuel. And I can say, without hesitation, they are phenomenal. I've had them for over four years now. There's two fuel filters. One on the rail, and one in the engine compartment. I've never had to clean the smaller one in the engine compartment. Never. I check it everytime I clean the rail filter, which is everytime I change the oil, and clean that filter as well. I have an Air Dog II high performance fuel pump and filter on my truck. The filters that come with that thing are the cheapest pieces of **** you'll ever see. So I had Kelly match the threads and make me a set for it. He said he'll never do it again. So I have three filters now. Two on the rail, and one in the engine compartment. I once left the secondary filter go too long without cleaning it. It clogged, and collapsed the filter. But it didn't let anything go to my motor. It just killed the truck because it stopped flowing fuel. I had to replace it. Kelly has a letter from Dale Earnhart himself, thanking him for his filters. He blew a rod in his car during a race. The oil filter caught every single bit of debris and allowed the team to rebuild the motor. Saved them tens of thousands of dollars on the rebuild.

As far as our cars, people dread the number 2 rod bearing failure. After seeing how these paper media filters really don't filter, and more importantly, how they restrict the flow of oil/fuel, I'm using one in my porsche as well. I will be getting my car back on the road in a month or so, and I have a Pure Power Filter waiting for it. There's a probable chance that during hard cornering, the oil restriction that occurs naturally though the paper media filters we use, gets too much for the filter to handle even more, and there goes the bearing. After using these filters, I firmly believe that #2 bearing won't starve for oil ever again.

I learned so much that I was thinking of partnering with Kelly and Fran to be a sales rep for the company. But I'm just too busy. So I have no affiliation, except to say, anyone using a paper media filter is actually hurting the longevity of their motor. Period. I've had a sample of oil to send in to BlackStone Labs to do an oil analysis on my trucks oil after an oil change. I ended up not even sendin it in as the tech I happen to speak with told me he's done testing before and after a Pure Power Filter was installed. The particulate matter was drastically reduced, among other things he said that I forgot.

As far as Kelly's oil products, I haven't tried them. But he talks a good talk, like any good salesman, and I have yet to meet anyone who's tried them personally. He has studies to back up his claims too. But I can't comment on them. Like to try them though. But the filters, I know, are the single best upgrade I've done to my truck, and it'll be on my porche too.

So that's my personal experience. These filters have paid for themselves over and over again. I now have one for my P Car, and I'll never buy another filter for it again. If there's enough interest in these, I'll call Kelly and see if he'll do some kind of group buy for everyone. I already have mine. But I'll help anyone out as I truly believe in these filters. And I was pissed to find out we use such outdated crappy filters with today's technologies. So, just let me know how many of you are interested and I'll give Kelly a call.

URG8RB8

Thanks for adding some real world information. I truly wish you would have sent out, received and posted the Blackstone report. I am still a little leery of this product, mainly because of some statements made by Kelly Tidwell and repeated by yourself. While doing more research this evening, I could find no information at all supporting your claim that all NASCAR teams use PurePower filters. If they did, this would certainly be posted somewhere. I have been to many pits both before, during and after races. I have never seen one of these filters installed. That is not to say that none do, I just have not seen one personally. Normally I see a remotely mounted Wix racing filter. Wix is from North Carolina (I was born there too) and us good 'ole boys try to stick together. I think that is why Harry is having a hard time with his foreign oil, HA! You ain't from around here, are you? After remembering this fact, I did a little more research this evening on Wix racing filters. These use the same pleated paper filter, but do not use a bypass valve! I should say most don't, some can be specially ordered with a bypass valve. Anyway, my point is if the oil doesn't flow through the paper media, the racing filters would not flow any oil and the engine would seize. Now I am even more confused. I will continue to do my research.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Speciality/Racing.aspx?1

Please note I also found your above post on a Diesel forum with identical verbage from a couple years ago (Google is amazing), which makes me think you might have monetary interest in this subject. I am not trying to call you out or anything, just want to make sure this product will do what it is advertised to do. I have ton of money sunk into my FL car's engine, similar to what you must have spent on yours. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize the life span of this engine. I truly hope this product does what it says. I want to buy one if it does, just need more proof. The next time my friend goes up to Charlotte, I will have him inspect all the cars in the garage and see what filters they are running now. I have not been in the garage in the last five years. Things can change quick.

DFASTEST951

That's too funny! Google is amazing for sure. I always thought I was a few fries short of a happy meal when it comes to my memory. The fact that you said it's almost identical verbiage on the diesel forums gives me hope I still have a few wits about me as I'm still young. My body is there for sure, but that's because it was my job, but I always seem to be forgetting ****. I should be on pay roll with Kelly dammit! I know you're kinda new here but if I had some monetary ties to them, I'd say so. Who would care anyway? I own and operate a few other businesses out here in Vegas, so it would be hard to get with them anyway. I just felt duped after finding out the filters I, and everyone else uses, really don't filter at all. So, do your research and make the best decision for you. Best advice is to look up nominal filtration vs absolute filtration. Then see all the companies that use the nominal method, and the very few that use the absolute method. That's what did it for me. Good luck and if you have any questions, I'll do what I can to answer them.

mikey_audiogeek

Good info, thanks! So it looks like it has a beta of 50 at 30 micron. Do you have any data on the beta rating at 10 micron? (re ISO4548-12: Multipass Method for Evaluating Filtration Performance of a Fine Filter Element).



Cheers,
Mike

gruhsy

You guys have sparked my curiosity so...

Question.

Can this guy Kelly be a little more specific about this Boeing statement? What filter(s) specifically? That statement sounds a little far fetched....

Not saying anything against the filter you guys are discussing.

Here is a link :
http://www.ptitechnologies.com/conte...r-and-overhaul

An example of an Aerospace company that supplies filters that are approved on Boeing aircraft.

Do some more research I guess is all.....just playing the devil's advocate

I work for a Defence / Aerospace company.....there is a ton involved in becoming an approved parts supplier.

I work with a few AME's that have worked on helicopters and F-18's and other aircraft. I'll see if they have anything of value to add. About filters I mean.

Good topic though I'm all about learning something new....just wish I could retain it. DOH!

URG8RB8

I am learning much as well! The biggest problem I am having with this product, is the claims they make without easily accessible proof to back them up. I actually wish they had not made such grandiose claims without supporting documents to prove said claims. The product looks great and I honestly feel it should do a great job. However, some of these claims make it sound "Too good to be true". My step brother is a General in the Army and a Ranger, his younger brother serves indirectly under him as a master mechanic, both are a still in Afghanistan. He mainly services Humvees in the desert. He told me he has never heard of this product. I asked both of them and got the same response from both. I have read several other military personelle attest to this fact in the Diesel truck forums. Again, nobody had any bad news about the product, but nobody could back up statements made by the owner.

Then there is this claim:

Every single Nascar team today, without exception, has a pure power filter in it's car. Even if it's sponsored by Fram or Wix. Sometimes you can even see the inline filter behind the driver on the car. I called the helicopter touring companies here in town. They all use them as well. The tech told me that if you break down on the road, you pull over. If you break down in the air, it's just over. They also just signed a contract with Boeing to supply the entire fleet. And even before Pure Power, they were using a similar filter by another company.

I will know more about this tonight Bangkok time. I called my buddy last night and asked him to call Brad Keselowski to find out if they use this product or have even heard of it. I wanted him to call Dale Jr. but his head is quite big now and doesn't take too many calls lately directly to his cell, even though my buddy puts all the decals on his Nationwide Series car. A while back I was fortunate enough to get to help put all the decals on the National Guard car prior to the Daytona 500. That was pretty cool actually. Too bad my laptop crashed shortly thereafter and I failed to make backup.

I want this product to be for real, but having a very difficult time trying to back up any of their claims. I am actually having a hard time finding anyone that has used this product all on their own. I have searched all the forums I am in, including the Nissan and Mazda forums. There always seems to be a single salesman indirectly or directly tied to the company making the same claims.

I know one thing for sure, if I made a product so good that every single NASCAR team bar none, was using my product, that would be in bold, front and center on my web page, along with proof to back it up. I am sure then the news would spread, and it would be on most every other race car.

URG8RB8

In my search for nominal versus absolute filtration, which really brought no results or admissions to actaully how a typical spin on oil filter truly works, I found a product that looks even better from Amsoil. It is a bypass partial flow filtration system that works in conjunction with the standard full flow filter. The secondary filter filters down to 1 micron! I might have to create a seperate thread pertaining to this product. Here are the links for those interested in learning more about this system:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...l-bypass-unit/

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...lter-elements/

Sounds very promissing, but here we go again, more research to follow. My initial findings from the Diesel crowd seems very positive and so far no far fetched claims. However, they make no mention for use on a sports car or high performance engine which I find strange.

I did find an interesting statement made about their full flow extended life synthetic media filter:

"Less Restriction
Proper oil flow is essential to keeping engine parts lubricated at all times. AMSOIL Ea Oil Filters' synthetic fibers are smaller than the fibers used in traditional filters, allowing Ea Oil Filters to provide lower restriction. During cold-temperature warm-up periods, an Ea Oil Filter allows the oil to flow through the filter more easily than a typical cellulose filter does. Lower restriction decreases engine wear."

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...a-oil-filters/

This is the first time that I have found a statement actually states the oil will flow through the media, during cold start applications. Note it does say more easily, and doesn't claim that other filters flow around the media. I truly don't want to use a filter on my car that allows unfiltered oil during the first five minutes after starting every morning.

There is another expensive fancy filter here with some good information and a hefty price tag:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...e-oil-filters/

If anything this has been quite the learning lesson. It is the little things we take for granted!

DFASTEST951

Again, I have no affiliation to the company. They don't have any sales reps. They don't want them. Call and ask yourself if they have sales reps working for the company. It's just Kelly, Fran, and Shannon in the office. No Sales Force. That includes me.You have to have a business in the automotive industry, and carry an initial supply of $25,000 to become a dealer for this company.I'm in the adult entertainment business. I own the only high end escort agency in Las Vegas and a Vacation Rental business. The girl in my avatar is my girl and I shoot the videos of the **** stars she works with. I'm not even close to being in the automotive business. NO AFFILIATION. Geez you guys...

But whatever floats your boat, you guys do your research. I never heard of them either until I read the Diesel Power article. Then I did my own research, bought them, and proved to myself these things far surpass anything on the market. Why don't you look up the Diesel Power Magazine for the test on these filters yourself. That's what got me started. Now, if it's available for my vehicle, that's what's going on it. Good luck in your research. I'll follow this and maybe I'll learn something more about them from anything you guys come up with.

URG8RB8

Again, was not trying to diss you at all. After reading your post on the diesel forum which pointed out you were willing/asking to be an affiliate I assumed you took this position. My bad, sorry. By the way, Great Real Job!!! Talking about having fun at work! I will most likely buy one in the end anyway and at least test it. I will probably put it on my CA car first though. I am sure it can be no worse than a stock Mahle filter. I am enjoying all the research and findings though. I have sent E-mails to many filter companies tech support E-mail addresses today asking them to provide information as to whether or not their filters are absolute or nominal and in addition inform me on how long before the by-pass valve closes after cold start up. If I weren't over here in Asia I would also call up PurePower and ask to speak to Kelly. Hell, I might bite the bullet and do that anyway. Time difference and long distance rates are a bitch though.