LS conversions. Let's hear it.
11-14-2012, 01:22 PM
#31
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If not "used" parts in a race car, what about "remanufactured"?
If you can afford 80lbs on the nose (and probably 80lbs ballast for the tail, but this would only make sense for people who are seriously underweight for their class), you can get a remanufactured 6.0 iron block (with a warranty!) for about $3000...the 6.0 has a big plus, that you can bolt on the L92 heads ($800 for a new pair/intake (from a 6.2L) which are designed for some serious airflow, even stock form. Find a big cam and you're good. L92 has a chamber about 5cc larger than 243 head stock, which would drop compression a tad but with a good cam you can make big power on pump gas...
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...p-446rwtq.html
If you can afford 80lbs on the nose (and probably 80lbs ballast for the tail, but this would only make sense for people who are seriously underweight for their class), you can get a remanufactured 6.0 iron block (with a warranty!) for about $3000...the 6.0 has a big plus, that you can bolt on the L92 heads ($800 for a new pair/intake (from a 6.2L) which are designed for some serious airflow, even stock form. Find a big cam and you're good. L92 has a chamber about 5cc larger than 243 head stock, which would drop compression a tad but with a good cam you can make big power on pump gas...
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...p-446rwtq.html
11-14-2012, 01:29 PM
#32
The L92 heads outflow some of the expensive CNC'ed heads, but they only fit the 6.0-6.2 Liters. I'm picking up another 5.3l though, L33 with LS6 heads and cam. Should be stupid with the procharger and 6-speed
11-14-2012, 05:41 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
One additional argument that comes from someone who has been on the road course with naturally aspirated cars vs boosted. V8's are just more consistent. What the hell do I mean by that!? I mean every time.. EVERY TIME you put your foot down at any certain RPM, you will ALWAYS have the same amount of torque and power. I used my ears to know how to feather the throttle. With a turbo car, you can get good at it, but won't always know if there's a "load" on a turbo charged motor or not. If I have to let off the gas with the turbo and get back on at say 4K rpm, I might not have the same power or "load" as I did at 4Krpm at the last corner. Especially true if you get a wheel off the track or two and need to get it back on in a hurry, or get a little sideways in a corner and can "steer" the car back in line with the gas pedal. It's an extra dimension I loved using with a naturally aspirated car that made me much more consistent and quicker. The boosted cars are a little more hit or miss. Not by a lot, but enough for me.
Get a supercharger!
Aahh..I finally know what it feels like to be one of those annoying pop up posters with an itchy keyboard finger just waiting for an opportunity to type 'get a V8'.
11-14-2012, 06:10 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
So, can a supercharged 5.3L fit into this racing class that we are talking about?
I've got 7 grand into my swap, which includes the whole car, suspension, and a bunch of bits to replace a lot of the rust that came with the cheap car price tag.
No, you don't have to have dry sump. A proper pan and proper sized oil cooling should work well and still be reliable.
I would easily take an LS over a very high strung turbo 4 any day.
I've got 7 grand into my swap, which includes the whole car, suspension, and a bunch of bits to replace a lot of the rust that came with the cheap car price tag.
No, you don't have to have dry sump. A proper pan and proper sized oil cooling should work well and still be reliable.
I would easily take an LS over a very high strung turbo 4 any day.
This is exactly my point - that a used LS-engine (or LT-engine..) with some minor stuff is not the right answer to every question.
11-14-2012, 07:01 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
A few years ago, one of the things that swayed me toward the LS swap vs. modifying the OE engine is seeing all of the failures on here to highly modified 944 turbo engines. I have not heard of very many LS engine failures yet, except for TonyG's after many years of hard running, and lots of LS7's, which despite their dry sumps, apparently had oiling starvation issues. The other thing that pushed me over the edge was I kept on breaking my damn clutch forks... but of course there are easier solutions to that than an engine swap.
I think there are good enough race oil pans available for the LS motors to not have to go dry sump, and the oil capacity is something like 9-10 quarts with an external oil cooler and lines. My Champ Pan has practically every oil control feature you can think of in it and it was only about $300.
I think there are good enough race oil pans available for the LS motors to not have to go dry sump, and the oil capacity is something like 9-10 quarts with an external oil cooler and lines. My Champ Pan has practically every oil control feature you can think of in it and it was only about $300.
11-14-2012, 11:02 PM
#39
Rennlist Junkie Forever
I would say it depends on how good the oil pan is and whether or not you're using an accusump. And while a perfect oil pan isn't as good as dry sumping, it may work depending on how good it is and how many G's the car pulls.
Anyway, I've been racing an LS based car since 2008.
One engine failure. And it was a junk yard LS1 (No Accusump), miles unknown, that had been severely over heated a few times. Never shifted below 6k, ran HARD. finally died after 4 years.
Why did it die? Not sure. It started slowly loosing power and after a couple of laps it just started clanking and the oil pressure dropped. I just shut it down and pulled off the track. And... I just bought a new LS6 to replace it.
Anyway... the RH oil pan I use is very good. It's got a box with 4 trap doors and an enclosed top over the pickup.
Combined that with a 3 quart accusump and it's probably a safe deal on a car fast car running slicks.
However.... this far into my car... I'm just not doing "probably" these days. And with the cost of dry sumping the LSx engine at between $3k-$4k, I'm just going to do it to be on the safe side. And if you factor that you don't need an accusump, the difference is even less.
TonyG
Anyway, I've been racing an LS based car since 2008.
One engine failure. And it was a junk yard LS1 (No Accusump), miles unknown, that had been severely over heated a few times. Never shifted below 6k, ran HARD. finally died after 4 years.
Why did it die? Not sure. It started slowly loosing power and after a couple of laps it just started clanking and the oil pressure dropped. I just shut it down and pulled off the track. And... I just bought a new LS6 to replace it.
Anyway... the RH oil pan I use is very good. It's got a box with 4 trap doors and an enclosed top over the pickup.
Combined that with a 3 quart accusump and it's probably a safe deal on a car fast car running slicks.
However.... this far into my car... I'm just not doing "probably" these days. And with the cost of dry sumping the LSx engine at between $3k-$4k, I'm just going to do it to be on the safe side. And if you factor that you don't need an accusump, the difference is even less.
TonyG
11-15-2012, 12:41 AM
#41
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Peak TQ: 397RWTQ @ 4700RPMS
Usable Range: Over 350RWTQ from 2800rpms - 6800+rpms.
All power made on California 91 pump fuel.
I get to 6600rpms with my S2 R&P (approx 167mph) in 5th gear around the high bank at AAA Club Speedway Roval in Fontana CA. (crazy **** BTW)
TonyG
11-15-2012, 12:50 AM
#43
Rennlist Junkie Forever
11-15-2012, 01:38 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
So if an LS motor can live happily in the 4500-7500rpm range for typical hour long races pulling plenty of Gs it is definitely a good prospect. Having all that extra torque to fall onto at gear changes would suit the 5 speed /S2 R&P gearing very well. Question is cost to run it over a season and what can you get away with in reducing build costs.
The few Corvettes that raced in my GT series in the UAE all spent megabucks on engines. One was a Calloway Corvette Z06R GT3 that generally wiped the field and was only occasionally bothered by a Ginetta G50Z and one very well prepped Viper, the others were C6 based cars of which I could match the slowest but not the rest. They were all dry sumped.
Like Duke, I have also thought about doing a V8 swap but you have to match the categories and the only ones I would be eligible to run a V8 in, I would be classed with 600hp cars. That's the problem, a reliable 400hp V8 race car is just not going to be competitive in any class it fits into over here. Better to stay with a 350 to 400hp Porsche motor and be eligible for categories you can actually win. You guys in the US have a lot more choice for racing though.
The few Corvettes that raced in my GT series in the UAE all spent megabucks on engines. One was a Calloway Corvette Z06R GT3 that generally wiped the field and was only occasionally bothered by a Ginetta G50Z and one very well prepped Viper, the others were C6 based cars of which I could match the slowest but not the rest. They were all dry sumped.
Like Duke, I have also thought about doing a V8 swap but you have to match the categories and the only ones I would be eligible to run a V8 in, I would be classed with 600hp cars. That's the problem, a reliable 400hp V8 race car is just not going to be competitive in any class it fits into over here. Better to stay with a 350 to 400hp Porsche motor and be eligible for categories you can actually win. You guys in the US have a lot more choice for racing though.
11-15-2012, 01:45 AM
#45
Rennlist Junkie Forever
So if an LS motor can live happily in the 4500-7500rpm range for typical hour long races pulling plenty of Gs it is definitely a good prospect. Having all that extra torque to fall onto at gear changes would suit the 5 speed /S2 R&P gearing very well. Question is cost to run it over a season and what can you get away with in reducing build costs.
The few Corvettes that raced in my GT series in the UAE all spent megabucks on engines. One was a Calloway Corvette Z06R GT3 that generally wiped the field and was only occasionally bothered by a Ginetta G50Z and one very well prepped Viper, the others were C6 based cars of which I could match the slowest but not the rest. They were all dry sumped.
Like Duke, I have also thought about doing a V8 swap but you have to match the categories and the only ones I would be eligible to run a V8 in, I would be classed with 600hp cars. That's the problem, a reliable 400hp V8 race car is just not going to be competitive in any class it fits into over here. Better to stay with a 350 to 400hp Porsche motor and be eligible for categories you can actually win. You guys in the US have a lot more choice for racing though.
The few Corvettes that raced in my GT series in the UAE all spent megabucks on engines. One was a Calloway Corvette Z06R GT3 that generally wiped the field and was only occasionally bothered by a Ginetta G50Z and one very well prepped Viper, the others were C6 based cars of which I could match the slowest but not the rest. They were all dry sumped.
Like Duke, I have also thought about doing a V8 swap but you have to match the categories and the only ones I would be eligible to run a V8 in, I would be classed with 600hp cars. That's the problem, a reliable 400hp V8 race car is just not going to be competitive in any class it fits into over here. Better to stay with a 350 to 400hp Porsche motor and be eligible for categories you can actually win. You guys in the US have a lot more choice for racing though.
Also... 450HP to the wheels is fairly easy to do with a LS1/6 (heads/cam/intake). 550HP to the wheels is easy to do with an LS3. We just bought one, a destroked setup with TI rods able to rev to 8000rpms, guaranteed to make 550RWHP for $11k complete.
Add $3k ish for dry sumping.
TonyG