333pg333

LS7

Duke

That's my experience too with modded 951's vs stock GT3's.
Cup car's though another leauge.

ehall

When I say GT3, I'm referring to the RS, as was stated in the thread title.

RolexNJ

Tony is dead on the money and is speaking from a vast experience with many well sorted 951s. If anyone would have a chance, it would be him.




Ah, no. To thick for me.. Ehall nice pic though.



To be remotely competitive with a GT3RS, and be cost effective. Define cost effective. What's the budget? It isn't going to happen for 'sustained' (the operative word) use on the track. If you want bragging rights on the street, crank up the boost and you'll easily do it, but your post specifically said the usage was mostly track.

You got that right.

333pg333

When you say 6+ seconds better Tony, what sort of laptimes are you talking about? How long is the track in question? 6 seconds is enormous so I have to imagine that these are very long tracks to be doing that over your car/setup. Also to be fair, and you've said this yourself, you have not done much at all to your motor and I don't think you thrash the daylights out of it either from what I've seen. Perhaps it's the natural 'lazyness' of the V8 that gives that impression, but I do find that pretty surprising all the same.

TonyG

I'm talking about WSIR (willow springs raceway at 2.5 miles), various configurations at Buttonwillow Raceway, Spring Mountain Raceway (3.1 miles), California Speedway "Roval" (don't know length but it's over 2 miles) more... pretty much the same story everywhere.

And it has nothing to do with the power. These cars don't pull me down the straights. And they don't really carry a lot more corner speed (a little, but equal tires would fix that).


They are just much better under braking (due to better weight distribution and their far superior ABS systems), quicker on turn-in (again due to weight distribution), can get out of a slow speed turn much harder (again... due to weight distribution).

They are better at jumping curbs (due to suspension geometry/design) without upsetting the car of losing traction (a big thing at tracks like Buttonwillow)

I could go on... but it's just all the little things that add up to a lot of time on a big track.

Another 100Hp won't fix the issue. If you're faster in and out of the turns, you're gonna win. The straights won't make up for that.

I love the 951 and it's a great car for track days and racing... but it's just not an equal platform to the 996/997 once you set them up.

TonyG

dand86951

I can add some first hand recent knowledge of the differences on track with a prepared 951 LS1 vs 997 GT3 prepped for track only duty. This past weekend at Miller Motorsport Park on the West track the 997 was 3-4 seconds faster than me in my car during the race. I know this 997 well and the driver is a faster driver than me and knows the 996/997 cars handling in and out. He runs slicks I have Hoosier R3s.

Another 99 996 cup car was four-five seconds faster, and a 996 highly prepped GT3RSR was 7-8 seconds faster and another 2010 ALMS CUP car driven by a ALMS series Champion was almost 9 seconds faster. This is a 2.3 mile course.

All these cars were running slicks but I don't think I would be able to close the gap of 3-9 secs even if I were on slicks. Still I have a lot of fun running my car and for me it is a great car. Extremely predictable and consistent throughout the race.

So I do agree with Tony that it is the sum of all the little things the 996/997 chassis does that make them so very quick. The aerodynamics, chassis stiffness, suspension geometry, weight balance and the "hand of God Brakes" just make for a terrific package.

Now, I can also say from personal experience that a well set up track oriented street 951 3.0 turbo with decent suspension and tires will certainly run with most close to stock GT3s on most tracks, but not run away from them, equal drivers assumed.

333pg333

Some interesting comments there from Tony and Dan. Dan I didn't know you had gone the V8 route either. (I will send you a pm regards your old clutch.) Dan, you concede that this guy in the prepped 997 is a faster driver than you and on slicks. It would be good to see you with some more experience under your belt and on slicks too. The gap would get much closer I'm thinking.
Tony, we have seen down here that the Cup Cars actually seem to avoid the gators. Their spring and shock rate is so stiff that that don't want to upset the car overly. Of course you're right in saying that they have suspension that reacts faster to upsets and also maintains better geometry overall. Short of something very custom and the few rare examples we've seen, the 944 isn't going to keep up with that level of race prepped rear engine Porsche no matter how much power you throw at them. I've clearly watched well driven stock GT3s just power away out of slower corners. Lets see what turns up next year in terms of new builds. I know there are quite a few in the pipeline that should be interesting. Watch this space.

dand86951

Patrick, I decided I would like to get into wheel to wheel competition and the 944 LS1 was up for sale from someone I knew so I decided to go that route. Your points about the difference between me, my car and the prepped 997 and its driver are appropriate. If I had more experience and possibly with equivalent tires the gap may be much closer. I am going to try a set of Michelin Scrub slicks and we will be racing with him in the future so we'll see how it goes.

As a good point of comparison about how fast the Cup Cars can be, in a recent race I got lapped (30 minute race) by one of the regular competitors who runs in the Patron GT3 platinum Series. I can only wish I were that quick. He was almost 8 secs a lap faster.

333pg333

All I can say is get more videos guys. Of course these cars have some big advantages over ours. However as we have all seen in the clip below, this guy does pretty well against a Cup Car and I'm sure this was without a monster motor. Just lighter.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExPd...layer_embedded

gt37vgt

ah i do remeber posting that vid befor and some one saying that motor was pretty nasty Pat

333pg333

Having posted that video a number of times, I also never get sick of watching it too Adam. I did speak via email to the owner/builder/driver Richard a few times. I could dig up some emails perhaps, but from memory this was sort of an interim motor while he built up something special. Got a feeling that may have been postponed or cancelled. Hans would have a better idea. They raced against one another.

His car actually resemble Tony's ironically. The yellow car is his stablemates.

Notice the Tower in the background.

gt37vgt

yeh that video never gets old like Ari vatan stuff .. that red car looks a mean as cat ****