951 Spec to be Competitive with 997 GT3 RS
06-18-2010, 02:43 AM
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06-18-2010, 04:57 AM
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This looks like a demonstration for the hp vs torque 'discussion'.
HooHaaH!!
So today we had a bit of fun at the pre event track day and did a Motorkhana, Hillclimb, short circuit, long circuit 'Quadrathalon' if I may. Quite a bit of fun actually. This humble 951 came 3rd out of about 20 cars. The guy that won was in a pretty warm Evo full cage etc. 2nd place was with a GT3 and I squeezed into 3rd. Except for a big spin on the Hillclimb that handed 11 seconds to the 2nd place car I should have taken the Silver medal. Now my point isn't to say "I'm da greatest" (far from it) but to point out that our humble little cars can be made competitive even with a 2.5L motor with stock internals. Now there is no way I could keep this up for any real length of time as the GT3s will just keep going all day where I'm bouncing and sliding around just to keep going straight.
Perhaps with Dry Sumping, Deck plates,/MIDs, modified cranks, big headstuds and running E85...we could see some big improvement in reliability over longer distances. That's not to mention any actual performance upgrades that are a 'given' in this discussion. Without changing to a V8 (which I also agree with Chris-good cars but not the real deal) we could also upgrade the suspension to something more contemporary. As we know, Steve Rea's Porvette had the whole rear end of a Corvette. Interesting concept...cheap, readily available, lots of performance upgrades...are we allowed this concession Chris?
HooHaaH!!
So today we had a bit of fun at the pre event track day and did a Motorkhana, Hillclimb, short circuit, long circuit 'Quadrathalon' if I may. Quite a bit of fun actually. This humble 951 came 3rd out of about 20 cars. The guy that won was in a pretty warm Evo full cage etc. 2nd place was with a GT3 and I squeezed into 3rd. Except for a big spin on the Hillclimb that handed 11 seconds to the 2nd place car I should have taken the Silver medal. Now my point isn't to say "I'm da greatest" (far from it) but to point out that our humble little cars can be made competitive even with a 2.5L motor with stock internals. Now there is no way I could keep this up for any real length of time as the GT3s will just keep going all day where I'm bouncing and sliding around just to keep going straight.
Perhaps with Dry Sumping, Deck plates,/MIDs, modified cranks, big headstuds and running E85...we could see some big improvement in reliability over longer distances. That's not to mention any actual performance upgrades that are a 'given' in this discussion. Without changing to a V8 (which I also agree with Chris-good cars but not the real deal) we could also upgrade the suspension to something more contemporary. As we know, Steve Rea's Porvette had the whole rear end of a Corvette. Interesting concept...cheap, readily available, lots of performance upgrades...are we allowed this concession Chris?
06-18-2010, 05:15 AM
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06-18-2010, 05:29 AM
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This looks like a demonstration for the hp vs torque 'discussion'.
HooHaaH!!
So today we had a bit of fun at the pre event track day and did a Motorkhana, Hillclimb, short circuit, long circuit 'Quadrathalon' if I may. Quite a bit of fun actually. This humble 951 came 3rd out of about 20 cars. The guy that won was in a pretty warm Evo full cage etc. 2nd place was with a GT3 and I squeezed into 3rd. Except for a big spin on the Hillclimb that handed 11 seconds to the 2nd place car I should have taken the Silver medal. Now my point isn't to say "I'm da greatest" (far from it) but to point out that our humble little cars can be made competitive even with a 2.5L motor with stock internals. Now there is no way I could keep this up for any real length of time as the GT3s will just keep going all day where I'm bouncing and sliding around just to keep going straight.
Perhaps with Dry Sumping, Deck plates,/MIDs, modified cranks, big headstuds and running E85...we could see some big improvement in reliability over longer distances. That's not to mention any actual performance upgrades that are a 'given' in this discussion. Without changing to a V8 (which I also agree with Chris-good cars but not the real deal) we could also upgrade the suspension to something more contemporary. As we know, Steve Rea's Porvette had the whole rear end of a Corvette. Interesting concept...cheap, readily available, lots of performance upgrades...are we allowed this concession Chris?
HooHaaH!!
So today we had a bit of fun at the pre event track day and did a Motorkhana, Hillclimb, short circuit, long circuit 'Quadrathalon' if I may. Quite a bit of fun actually. This humble 951 came 3rd out of about 20 cars. The guy that won was in a pretty warm Evo full cage etc. 2nd place was with a GT3 and I squeezed into 3rd. Except for a big spin on the Hillclimb that handed 11 seconds to the 2nd place car I should have taken the Silver medal. Now my point isn't to say "I'm da greatest" (far from it) but to point out that our humble little cars can be made competitive even with a 2.5L motor with stock internals. Now there is no way I could keep this up for any real length of time as the GT3s will just keep going all day where I'm bouncing and sliding around just to keep going straight.
Perhaps with Dry Sumping, Deck plates,/MIDs, modified cranks, big headstuds and running E85...we could see some big improvement in reliability over longer distances. That's not to mention any actual performance upgrades that are a 'given' in this discussion. Without changing to a V8 (which I also agree with Chris-good cars but not the real deal) we could also upgrade the suspension to something more contemporary. As we know, Steve Rea's Porvette had the whole rear end of a Corvette. Interesting concept...cheap, readily available, lots of performance upgrades...are we allowed this concession Chris?
If that's what it takes, you'll need a Vette...and DAMMIT! I ain't throwin no Z06 or ZR1 outta bed anytime soon!
Why are we always trying to be something else around here. We're good at what WE do. If one wants to do something else, then cool!...but DAMMIT! ...it is something else. There's nothing at all wrong with that.
There is no way in Hell that you can make a 951 perform like a GT3, much less like an RS or RSR.
Now, If you can make one last for 24 hours, and can get a tire company to provide you with the type of tire scenario that B.F. Goodrich provided to the Brumos/BFG/ 24 hr LeMans class winner...AND if you can get the sanctioning body to allow you in, you might just have a shot...especially with the chicane on the Mulsanne straight.
Keep in mind this. They won on cut down street tires and had a massive fuel mileage advantage. One of their cars died to gear box failure IIRC. The other won because everyone else spent too long in the pits.
THAT is the Porsche recipe for excellence. We out-handle, out-brake and out-last our competition.
But what if our competition is a far better and more advanced version of us?
That's what the GT3, of today, is.
I'm glad to share space with them.
06-18-2010, 05:43 AM
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06-18-2010, 05:45 AM
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06-18-2010, 06:06 AM
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Nothing a good shower won't cure
06-18-2010, 04:54 PM
#87
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Actually Elliott, the OP asked can he make his or a 951 to go as fast as a GT3RS in a nutshell. Somehow we got into Endurance racing and essentially all agreed that this is not possible. Dial it back a bit and look at track events that are not Enduros and I assume the OP may have also meant on the street? Most of us agree that we should take the V8 option off the table...but I still think to answer the original question we should be 'allowed' to discuss other suspension systems to try and bring this hypothetical 951 somewhere into this century as far as suspension goes. I'm not saying this has to be from a Corvette. It may be from another Porsche. Just that with our rear end, it does make life a little more difficult to achieve the goal against a pretty cutting edge machine. Besides, this is all just bench racing anyway. 
06-18-2010, 05:45 PM
#88
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Actually Elliott, the OP asked can he make his or a 951 to go as fast as a GT3RS in a nutshell. Somehow we got into Endurance racing and essentially all agreed that this is not possible. Dial it back a bit and look at track events that are not Enduros and I assume the OP may have also meant on the street? Most of us agree that we should take the V8 option off the table...but I still think to answer the original question we should be 'allowed' to discuss other suspension systems to try and bring this hypothetical 951 somewhere into this century as far as suspension goes. I'm not saying this has to be from a Corvette. It may be from another Porsche. Just that with our rear end, it does make life a little more difficult to achieve the goal against a pretty cutting edge machine. Besides, this is all just bench racing anyway.
06-19-2010, 01:59 PM
#90
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Actually Elliott, the OP asked can he make his or a 951 to go as fast as a GT3RS in a nutshell. Somehow we got into Endurance racing and essentially all agreed that this is not possible. Dial it back a bit and look at track events that are not Enduros and I assume the OP may have also meant on the street?
This thread went off topic with all the endurance talk, even if it's true.
The first thread asked for what needs to be done to be "competitive". And one just need to watch Patrick's video to see that it's not impossible. Doesn't matter if Patrick were a better driver or not, it's clear to see that Patrick's car is competetive. And sure, Patrick's car is modified and well sorted but it's not a custom, one-off, six digit build (at least not in the parts actually mounted in the car
)To have OEM reliability on a 20 year old modded car won't happen so I think we can put that disucssion aside
