Penguinracer

Okay - so there are a lot of projects going on out there, all with different objectives. If I set as my objective the creation of 951 which could be competitive for performance with a 997 GT3 RS both on road & track (with the emphasis on track) what specification would be required, bearing in mind I'd be looking for the most cost-effective options. The car must retain a full interior, not be caged & retain its original bodywork. Tim

DanR

I would ask yoursefl the question as to whether you want to be as fast as an RS with no additional safety features. At that speed **** happens fast and I would want all the protection I coud get.

Several ways to do it, non of which willl be cheap. - here is my guess

engine 2.5 to 3.0 puching our 500 ponies.
upgraded suspension, Leda, motons etc etc. For the track pushing spring rates up will help a lot but sacrifice road performance, bigger swaysm solid bushings (not good for the road)
updrade brakes (big reds), performance pads PFC or Pagid, high performance fluid (Motul or Castrol SRF......)
rubber will be key so go wide and go sticky
loose weight - fiberglass hood, bumpers (a big rear wing which makes the car look less road worthy) front splitter

and finally paint the car to look like the Mobil 1 car as these are by far the fastest cars out there

A GT3 RS is a FAST car and I would imagine you will need a GTS2 spec equivelent car to keep up with one

Van

To make a heavier car with older suspension technology be competitive with with a 997 GT3 RS, I'd think you need about 500-600 HP. A worked LS1, or maybe a super/turbo charged LS1 should do the trick.

If you're willing to put on fiberglass body work and gut the interior, so you can get it down to 2500 lbs or so (with driver), you'll only need 400-ish HP to be competitive.

gt37vgt

Gt3rs is 1375kg 415hp so around 300hp/ton. i think 1250kg is realistic for lightened RS type 951 so to mach it power to weight you only realy need 380hp ..so in the magic fantasy recepie i would say the 951 would want a very responsive 450hp ...I think going beyond 450hp you are burning to much resources under the bonnet .i think all the suspension geometry needs a bit of work ...
i think 17x9 17x10 is the wheel size is the fastest set up for a 951

DanR

problem with a heavier more powerful car is then braking and handling. Modern suspension geometry is much better than 30 Year old technology. As we know a heavy car is muck less nimble than a lighter one even with 500+ ponies and I think woul dbe killed in the twisties by a GT3 RS

Van

All true, Dan, but if you're not willing to bear the expense of a real serious suspension and change the bodywork with widebody fiberglass fenders, putting HP under the hood is about the only option. The GT3 would have a handling advantage, but with enough HP, that can triumph in all but the tightest of twisties.

Roy Chong's 951 is faster than GT3 cups - I think he's making in the neighborhood of 500 HP... and his car is a GT1 class car. I think you're right that a GT2 class car would be competitive with a street GT3 RS. But you either have to add power or reduce weight (or both) to get there...

Mark944na86

I suspect a reality transplant would be your best option.

Fishey

A GT3 RS isn't that fast and isn't that light

119/121mph 1/4mile traps and 3,100lbs (Race tires/PCCB/CF Seats)

A lightened 944 (2800/2900lbs) with a LS3 Head/Cam/Intake would trap near 130mph.

User 52121

When I mentioned to a few people that I was trying to make my 951 competitive with a basically stock 993 Coupe (save for PSS-9s) I was more or less laughed out of the room. You're trying to take that a whole step further.

While I'm sure anything is possible... I'll tell you essentially the same thing I was told: it'd probably wind up being cheaper to just buy the real thing.

User 52121

Fast down a drag strip and fast on a road course are almost completely separate. I would not expect a 120-mph trapping 951 to be able to hang with a GT3 RS on a road course, given equal drivers.

Fishey

No, I agree with that but in terms of power the LS3 has a much larger powerband and overall is going to give acceleration advantage to the 944.

I think the 944 is going to need some serious modification and some width added to fit larger tires to put the power to the ground etc.. but given a GT3 RS cost base $138,000+ I think its very possible to make a relitive budget 944 that would beat a GT3RS

Van

To continue beating this dead horse... I just looked up the PCA racing class specifications for each:

'86-'88 944 turbo: E class - 3049 lbs - 217 HP - 14.05 lb/hp
997 GT3 RS (all years): L class - 3170 lbs - 450 HP - 7.04 lb/hp

So, given the obvious facts that the RS is 7 classes higher, and has twice the HP to weight as the 951, your very first starting point would be to either make the 951 twice as powerful, or do some serious body modifications to get it to weigh half as much.

Because the RS is 30 years newer in design and materials selection, I'd think you'd need your 951 to exceed the power to weight ratio of the RS to be on "even footing".

DanR

my stock (race class) 951 cup replica is competative with stock (race class) 993 so not really a laughing matter. Look at my and Glen crawfords time sheets from the recent Glen race or NJMP last year

Bob Rouleau

It would be cheaper to pick up a used 996 GT3 which is identical in performance to a 997 Mk 1 RS.

reno808

how about working on ur driving skills 1st