Trade 951 for 996TT?
12-21-2009, 04:05 PM
#17
I guess you must be about my age by now, I am close to 50, people says that with age comes wisdom but not in Colorado I guess.
Unless you have the skills of Evel Knievel or all the Colorado drivers have the IQ of Einstein I call bs on your statement, my statistic show different, bikes are much dangerous than cars to drive, a bike driver might have bigger ***** than me because I would not ride a bike but I guarantee the brain size have to be much smaller.
What would they required to wear a helmet to protect the brain, what brain do you need to ride in a motor with wheels?
Unless you have the skills of Evel Knievel or all the Colorado drivers have the IQ of Einstein I call bs on your statement, my statistic show different, bikes are much dangerous than cars to drive, a bike driver might have bigger ***** than me because I would not ride a bike but I guarantee the brain size have to be much smaller.
What would they required to wear a helmet to protect the brain, what brain do you need to ride in a motor with wheels?
Takes pretty big brains there to throw out personal insults.
So I take it as a "super smart non bike rider" you have put lots of study into the actual FACTS and not the RUMORS and UNFOUNDED fears that are perpetuated every day by other non bike riders like yourself?
FWIW, I am a retired LEO too. I have LOTS of insights into the "REALITY" of motorcycling, and not the rumors.
12-21-2009, 04:06 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Am I missing up to date prices or something?
A 996TT that is not going to give you the same problems as a 951 will probably be in the mid $40K range at best. Not sure where you guys are seeing high $30's unless they need dome work or if it is 996NON turbo.
You could put half that into the 951 and have a monster AND add some of the creature comforts.
Maybe 993TT would be in the $30-40K range.
A 996TT that is not going to give you the same problems as a 951 will probably be in the mid $40K range at best. Not sure where you guys are seeing high $30's unless they need dome work or if it is 996NON turbo.
You could put half that into the 951 and have a monster AND add some of the creature comforts.
Maybe 993TT would be in the $30-40K range.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...001-996tt.html
I have seen many more right around $40k (and some $1-2k under) on Manheim and also on the usual online places (autotrader, cars.com). And most of these cars were former CPO. I agree with the consensus that i would buy one still under extended warranty though. But it seems other than the 2nd gear transmission issues of the early cars the engine is very reliable. I think the only real downside is you need to really set aside money for rear tires. I have a friend with a completely stock '01 and he gets 10-12k miles out of the rears if hes lucky.
All of the 993TT i have seen the last few months are easily in the $50k+ range. And yes, i would take a 993TT over a 951 or 996TT any day.. but they have held value extremely well.
You can find 996 non turbo's all over the $20k range (not including C4S), there are so damn many of them floating around. 993 n/a's seem to be in the high $20s.
I do not claim to be an expert on the pricing of any of these cars, but this is just what i have seen over the last few months of my looking.
BTW, have you thought about a C5 Z06.. brand loyalty aside, that is one hell of a car and you can find them in the low $30's.
12-21-2009, 04:10 PM
#19
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Takes pretty big brains there to throw out personal insults.
So I take it as a "super smart non bike rider" you have put lots of study into the actual FACTS and not the RUMORS and UNFOUNDED fears that are perpetuated every day by other non bike riders like yourself?
FWIW, I am a retired LEO too. I have LOTS of insights into the "REALITY" of motorcycling, and not the rumors.
So I take it as a "super smart non bike rider" you have put lots of study into the actual FACTS and not the RUMORS and UNFOUNDED fears that are perpetuated every day by other non bike riders like yourself?
FWIW, I am a retired LEO too. I have LOTS of insights into the "REALITY" of motorcycling, and not the rumors.
I am not taking about rumors, you mentioned statistics first, so show them to me. I speak of at least "AT LEAST" 10 people that are known by me that have been involved in car vs bike accidents and at least another dozen bikes that i have seen involved in collisions over the years, btw the 2 of my friend died as a result of injuries from bike accidents. We even lost a lister last year in CA, lewis he died because he was riding his bike.
12-21-2009, 04:14 PM
#20
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If you have the chance to step to a 996tt I would recommend taking it. I don't think the 996tt's will depreciate much more, and they are the supercar bargain of the century. You can take one up to 700hp on the stock bottom end and there are many built motors out there running near 1k hp. The chassis will fit almost all the GT3/Gt2/Cup car suspension goodies, and you can to a RWD conversion to liven up the steering feel. Lastly, the wiring harnesses are not ~25 years old.
12-21-2009, 04:22 PM
#22
I'm not going to track all of them down for this thread. Go search the net and look at them from an analytical point of view.
They basically break down like this. (rounding the stats so take them with a grain of salt)
50%+ of motorcycle accidents involve alcohol. (think the stereotypical Harley rider at the bar)
Well over 70% of accidents are SINGLE vehicle accidents.
MOST of the accidents the RIDER was SPEEDING!
60% of the riders on the road don't even have a motorcycle license, so what are the odds of them being PROPERLY trained?
The SMALLEST % of accidents is what everyone is afraid of, a car not seeing you and hitting you. That is litterally less than 5% (ish) of the time.
Keep in mind that motorcycling attracts an adventure seeking crowd, that demographic does not always seek the proper training or obey the laws. THIS IS WHAT GETS THEM KILLED, NOT THE OTHER CARS!!
I'm sorry you have lost friends. I have lost MANY more friends to car accidents than motorcycle accidents. Most of those involved alcohol.
The bottom line with the stats is that if you put a RESPONSIBLE and TRAINED rider on a bike it is a fairly safe activity.
I just hate the blatant "bikes are dangerous" "cars hit bikes" stuff. MOST of the time it is the fault of the rider.
They basically break down like this. (rounding the stats so take them with a grain of salt)
50%+ of motorcycle accidents involve alcohol. (think the stereotypical Harley rider at the bar)
Well over 70% of accidents are SINGLE vehicle accidents.
MOST of the accidents the RIDER was SPEEDING!
60% of the riders on the road don't even have a motorcycle license, so what are the odds of them being PROPERLY trained?
The SMALLEST % of accidents is what everyone is afraid of, a car not seeing you and hitting you. That is litterally less than 5% (ish) of the time.
Keep in mind that motorcycling attracts an adventure seeking crowd, that demographic does not always seek the proper training or obey the laws. THIS IS WHAT GETS THEM KILLED, NOT THE OTHER CARS!!
I'm sorry you have lost friends. I have lost MANY more friends to car accidents than motorcycle accidents. Most of those involved alcohol.
The bottom line with the stats is that if you put a RESPONSIBLE and TRAINED rider on a bike it is a fairly safe activity.
I just hate the blatant "bikes are dangerous" "cars hit bikes" stuff. MOST of the time it is the fault of the rider.
12-21-2009, 05:17 PM
#24
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If you have permission from the boss - what are you waiting for !??
Worst case scenario - You don't like the 996tt that much, so you sell it and go back to a bike and a 951 or similar. If you buy the 996tt right, you won't lose much money in the process.
or ..... buy the 996 tt first, promise to sell the bike and the 951, and drive the 996 tt for a month or so - if you don't like it, dump it and keep what you have.
Worst case scenario - You don't like the 996tt that much, so you sell it and go back to a bike and a 951 or similar. If you buy the 996tt right, you won't lose much money in the process.
or ..... buy the 996 tt first, promise to sell the bike and the 951, and drive the 996 tt for a month or so - if you don't like it, dump it and keep what you have.
12-21-2009, 05:27 PM
#25
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Overall, I would vote to keep the 951. My bias comes in because I really do not care much for the looks of the 996 (now a 997, 
). Likewise, the cost stratification is pretty significant and I could never justify the cost. In the mod-game, you'll likely be able to go much further with the 996TT, however, overall part costs will be likely be higher (however, in the short term you'll probably need less initial replacement items). The 996 is a much better car, it is newer, more modern technology, and etc (and it too will become dated, the newest example is what, going on 5 years old?).
Fortunately, or unfortunately, I've fallen for the charm and character of an older car and what it takes to keep it on the road. There is something about stepping into history after a long day of work that I find quite intoxicating. I'll grow old and gray, but it will stay the same, quite comforting right?
Edit: It should be noted, if I am spending that much on a car it will be a car that the whole family can enjoy (ala M-car).
). Likewise, the cost stratification is pretty significant and I could never justify the cost. In the mod-game, you'll likely be able to go much further with the 996TT, however, overall part costs will be likely be higher (however, in the short term you'll probably need less initial replacement items). The 996 is a much better car, it is newer, more modern technology, and etc (and it too will become dated, the newest example is what, going on 5 years old?). Fortunately, or unfortunately, I've fallen for the charm and character of an older car and what it takes to keep it on the road. There is something about stepping into history after a long day of work that I find quite intoxicating. I'll grow old and gray, but it will stay the same, quite comforting right?
Edit: It should be noted, if I am spending that much on a car it will be a car that the whole family can enjoy (ala M-car).
Last edited by manticore33; 12-21-2009 at 05:49 PM.
12-21-2009, 05:44 PM
#26
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Do a little checking on the 996 boards on engines. There have been more then a couple of engine problems, lots were covered under warrenty but the warrentee period has expired for most 996 models. Seems to be two schools of thought, one is that it is a small problem and the other is that it will effect most cars as they age. I guess you are biased if you have a failure.
They include:
- Rear main seal (RMS) leaks
- Intermediate shaft
- Cracked cylinder walls
With rebuilt engines costing around $10K, it could get expensive.
They include:
- Rear main seal (RMS) leaks
- Intermediate shaft
- Cracked cylinder walls
With rebuilt engines costing around $10K, it could get expensive.
12-21-2009, 05:45 PM
#27
Rainman
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If you have the chance to step to a 996tt I would recommend taking it. I don't think the 996tt's will depreciate much more, and they are the supercar bargain of the century. You can take one up to 700hp on the stock bottom end and there are many built motors out there running near 1k hp. The chassis will fit almost all the GT3/Gt2/Cup car suspension goodies, and you can to a RWD conversion to liven up the steering feel. Lastly, the wiring harnesses are not ~25 years old.
"You can take one up to 700hp on the stock middle end" lol
12-21-2009, 05:51 PM
#28
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Do a little checking on the 996 boards on engines. There have been more then a couple of engine problems, lots were covered under warrenty but the warrentee period has expired for most 996 models. Seems to be two schools of thought, one is that it is a small problem and the other is that it will effect most cars as they age. I guess you are biased if you have a failure.
They include:
- Rear main seal (RMS) leaks
- Intermediate shaft
- Cracked cylinder walls
With rebuilt engines costing around $10K, it could get expensive.
They include:
- Rear main seal (RMS) leaks
- Intermediate shaft
- Cracked cylinder walls
With rebuilt engines costing around $10K, it could get expensive.
12-21-2009, 06:01 PM
#29
Probably going to be hard to get a bike back into the household once gone. Just a thought.
Here is the problem I see with taking advice concerning motorcycles from non-motorcyclists. It is very similar to asking for advice on your sex life with your wife from a gay friend.
12-21-2009, 06:04 PM
#30
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Yes, keep the damn money pit, I agree for several reasons.
