Some ?'s about 3.0 turbo conversion
10-24-2008, 01:40 PM
#16
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You should have purchased my engine but I think it is sold. This would have saved you alot of grief and the engine was put together in a way that it would live.
For $3K? Maybe youll acquire all the parts..... then the money really starts to add up.
As for the exhaust valves, they are like that to deal with the heat better but I have seen v-8 turbo engine without sodium valves but I know Porsche did it for a reason. I think even the 968 turbo had the 2.7 head with turbo exhuast valves.
Good luck and keep us posted.
For $3K? Maybe youll acquire all the parts..... then the money really starts to add up.
As for the exhaust valves, they are like that to deal with the heat better but I have seen v-8 turbo engine without sodium valves but I know Porsche did it for a reason. I think even the 968 turbo had the 2.7 head with turbo exhuast valves.
Good luck and keep us posted.
10-24-2008, 01:43 PM
#17
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For exhaust valves use the 951 valves. For rods, you can get by using the 951 rods as well. For pistons, there are a few options for the Alusil block and lots of options if you sleeve the block. If you are on a tight budget, keep it simple (Alusil block, 951 ex. valves, 951 valve springs, 951 rods,..).
Gathering parts is not the expensive part. Putting the engine together so it lives is a rea to investigate. Work with someone reliable who has done it "successfully" before is key to any engine project (Chris White is a good builder to discuss your project with)..
Do your homework, spend the $ where it's needed, spend a bit now or a lot more later.
Gathering parts is not the expensive part. Putting the engine together so it lives is a rea to investigate. Work with someone reliable who has done it "successfully" before is key to any engine project (Chris White is a good builder to discuss your project with)..
Do your homework, spend the $ where it's needed, spend a bit now or a lot more later.
10-24-2008, 01:48 PM
#18
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Tone3721: Please understand we are not trying to discourage you here. We just want you to be aware of what you are getting yourself into. Or in another words, start a project that may end up taking a really long time due to unexpected expences. If your decision is to go 3.0 because your cylinder walls are scored pretty bad. If it helps I have a good 2.5 block and can help you out. Keep us posted...
10-24-2008, 01:55 PM
#19
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Tone3721: Please understand we are not trying to discourage you here. We just want you to be aware of what you are getting yourself into. Or in another words, start a project that may end up taking a really long time due to unexpected expences. If your decision is to go 3.0 because your cylinder walls are scored pretty bad. If it helps I have a good 2.5 block and can help you out. Keep us posted...
10-24-2008, 01:59 PM
#21
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On my 3.0L I used the 951 exhaust valve in the 2.7L head and swain coated the CC's, valve faces, and exhaust ports. I'm using 104.5 Mahle pistons in an S2 block. I also added squirters and pauter rods. Based on the cam I'm using I had to adjust the valve stem height based on the different base circles of the cam.
You really need to stop by and check some stuff out. My 3.0 is on a stand right now and a lot of your questions would be answered.
You really need to stop by and check some stuff out. My 3.0 is on a stand right now and a lot of your questions would be answered.
10-24-2008, 02:02 PM
#22
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Andial sells Mahle forged turbo pistons for 3,0l block. Around $1k. Turbo rods will handle reliably 400-500 hp, unless there's knock, then less. New rods are again $1k. As John mentioned, you can use turbo's exhaust valves from your existing head. Head rebuild with any porting or new hardware: $1k. Parts for engine rebuild $1k. You must change atleast gaskets and bearings...
I burned about $15-20k to my 3,0l engine, depending on € to $ exchange rate. All included: total 2,5l block rebuild with Darton MID's, S2 crank, hi-flo head, bigger turbo, IC and related goodies, new engine management, beefier clutch etc...
Good luck!
I burned about $15-20k to my 3,0l engine, depending on € to $ exchange rate. All included: total 2,5l block rebuild with Darton MID's, S2 crank, hi-flo head, bigger turbo, IC and related goodies, new engine management, beefier clutch etc...
Good luck!
10-24-2008, 02:13 PM
#23
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You could just make a 2.7 with that 968 block.....you'll have the oil squirters and thicker cylinder wall of the 3.0L. Still not sure what to tell ya about the 2.7 head but I think it would be cheaper and easier to have your turbo head modified for the 3.0 block. Then the intake manifold will work and you have the turbo exhaust valves already installed.
Still dont think this can be done for $3000 but hey, youll have the oil cooling squirters and beefier than 2.5 block.
This is why I think alky and supercharger would be great for these cars......No heat, no backpressure, and use the factory compression. Ahhhhh. Im constantly thinking of ways to change these cars....so much that I dont sleep very much these days because of this. ha ha Most of my ideas are forgotten by the next morning. But, it is what keeps me ticking and gives me hope in life.........making my all time favorite car even better.
Still dont think this can be done for $3000 but hey, youll have the oil cooling squirters and beefier than 2.5 block.
This is why I think alky and supercharger would be great for these cars......No heat, no backpressure, and use the factory compression. Ahhhhh. Im constantly thinking of ways to change these cars....so much that I dont sleep very much these days because of this. ha ha Most of my ideas are forgotten by the next morning. But, it is what keeps me ticking and gives me hope in life.........making my all time favorite car even better.
10-24-2008, 02:31 PM
#24
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On my 3.0L I used the 951 exhaust valve in the 2.7L head and swain coated the CC's, valve faces, and exhaust ports. I'm using 104.5 Mahle pistons in an S2 block. I also added squirters and pauter rods. Based on the cam I'm using I had to adjust the valve stem height based on the different base circles of the cam.
You really need to stop by and check some stuff out. My 3.0 is on a stand right now and a lot of your questions would be answered.
You really need to stop by and check some stuff out. My 3.0 is on a stand right now and a lot of your questions would be answered.
10-24-2008, 02:42 PM
#25
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Andial sells Mahle forged turbo pistons for 3,0l block. Around $1k. Turbo rods will handle reliably 400-500 hp, unless there's knock, then less. New rods are again $1k. As John mentioned, you can use turbo's exhaust valves from your existing head. Head rebuild with any porting or new hardware: $1k. Parts for engine rebuild $1k. You must change atleast gaskets and bearings...
I burned about $15-20k to my 3,0l engine, depending on € to $ exchange rate. All included: total 2,5l block rebuild with Darton MID's, S2 crank, hi-flo head, bigger turbo, IC and related goodies, new engine management, beefier clutch etc...
Good luck!
I burned about $15-20k to my 3,0l engine, depending on € to $ exchange rate. All included: total 2,5l block rebuild with Darton MID's, S2 crank, hi-flo head, bigger turbo, IC and related goodies, new engine management, beefier clutch etc...
Good luck!
As others have said its the little things that really add up and start to hurt. I have a basic 2.5 for gods sake and im now north of 20k. Now everything is literally brand new or better than factory but, still..........ouch
10-24-2008, 02:59 PM
#27
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Originally posted by porshhhh951:
Thats being a little more realistic. 4k just in parts and thats assuming everything else truly is okay.
As others have said its the little things that really add up and start to hurt. I have a basic 2.5 for gods sake and im now north of 20k. Now everything is literally brand new or better than factory but, still..........ouch
Thats being a little more realistic. 4k just in parts and thats assuming everything else truly is okay.
As others have said its the little things that really add up and start to hurt. I have a basic 2.5 for gods sake and im now north of 20k. Now everything is literally brand new or better than factory but, still..........ouch
After you're done with the motor(seals, gaskets, pumps, bearings, assembly).....then you think oH **** what about fuel. How am I gonna tune this thing? Crap, what about my clutch! Ok this thing needs to breath I need MAF. **** I need an exhaust too. My old small turbo def needs replacing. Which means I'll need a dual port wastegate. Now that Ive got this baby running I cant hook. These crappy 9" tires need replacing. Im sure I left out quite a bit, but basically.....
$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$
10-24-2008, 02:59 PM
#28
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I got your email (I’ll respond directly to that!) but I thought I would post my usual questions for the list to enjoy!
You need to make clear exactly what you want this engine to do for you. There is a huge difference in the type of parts, build techniques and expense based on what you want to do with the engine.
My usual categories –
Street engine
Show engine
Dyno queen
DE engine
‘Real’ race engine
Be honest with exactly what you want. ‘Real’ race engines make crappy street engines and visa versa.
Also – no mention of engine management. This will impact the engine design. There are some things I would do for a standalone that just wouldn’t be a good idea for a chipped AFM set up….
The most important step in planning a successful build is setting the right goals.
You need to make clear exactly what you want this engine to do for you. There is a huge difference in the type of parts, build techniques and expense based on what you want to do with the engine.
My usual categories –
Street engine
Show engine
Dyno queen
DE engine
‘Real’ race engine
Be honest with exactly what you want. ‘Real’ race engines make crappy street engines and visa versa.
Also – no mention of engine management. This will impact the engine design. There are some things I would do for a standalone that just wouldn’t be a good idea for a chipped AFM set up….
The most important step in planning a successful build is setting the right goals.
10-24-2008, 03:39 PM
#29
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It would be almost entirely a street car. Soon to be a heavy PCH cruiser. Right now I have a lindsey mafterburner, MAF, 951max chips, vitesse stage 3 turbo.
I just got off the phone with the shop. Powerhaus wants to take a 2.7 engine, put a 3.0 crank in, pistons, rods, etc, and turbo that. Rather than put the 2.7 head on 968 block.
I just got off the phone with the shop. Powerhaus wants to take a 2.7 engine, put a 3.0 crank in, pistons, rods, etc, and turbo that. Rather than put the 2.7 head on 968 block.
10-24-2008, 03:55 PM
#30
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