Olli Snellman

951,S2,968 studs are all too long, just 1989 2,7L studs will do if you are using OEM items.

dand86951

951 head studs are absolutely not the right length. As others have said, to use that block with a 2.7 head ONLY the factory 89 2.7 head studs will be the right length, or the Raceware equivalent.

The OEM pistons even if made by Mahle are probably for the 4 valve head and as such have a different squish design and will have a high compression ratio when used with the 2 valve head. Be absolutely certain they are Mahle and are forged and are for the 2 valve head. Koblenschmidt also made 104.5 pistons for the 968 and they will work but you will have higher compression and they are a piston made for a normally aspirated engine, not a turbo engine.

If the rods are OEM 968, they will not be as strong as the forged turbo rods or as strong as aftermarket rods.

Tom M'Guinn

944 turbo studs: 190mm
968 studs: 165mm
89 2.7 n/a studs: 150mm

The installed stud height for a 2.7 head is 72mm (above the deck) give or take a mm. If the studs on your block stick up higher than that, they are too tall.

Post some pics of the pistons, and we may be able to tell you what they really are. The seller's head stud claims should make you question his other claims. Caveat emptor and all...

tone3721

Yeah, thanks for the info guys. Some of you may have heard of them, german auto dismantlers, cleveland, georgia. I was speaking to Joe Cogbill this morning, googling his name it turn s out hes won sebring a few times, and rolex, I thought that was interesting. When he was trying to sell me a 968 bottom end, he was eager for the sale, and said hell change the studs, adding that theyre just 951 studs, I thought that was odd. He referred me to a Pete at andial. I havent contacted andial yet, but supposedly theyre mahle oem 968 turbo s rods and pistons, 104.5mm Im pretty sure OEM was 104mm tho??? Im beginning to think hes just trying to make a sale.

Heres where im at right now: Ive sourced a 2.7 head, block, 68 crank, for 2300. The other was what I mentioned above, 68 bottom end with supposed correct headstuds for 2500. Thing is with the 2.7 is no piston squirters, how necesary are the squirters? Its looking like it wont be easy to source them. Maybe I can talk one of the salvage yards into pulling them out of a 68 bottom end.

George D

Send me a PM if you want a source for a motor, or at least proper advise. You don't want to go through all the time and money you are about to spend ending up with issues. Please don't take this the wrong way, but after reading your posts, you are likely to be disappointed down the road.

Learning how to do this may be fun for you, spending all the time/money to have issues after won't. Little mistakes blow these motors beyond simple repairs. Many on this list knows this first hand.

Just wanting to help you get what you want. I've done this, and I am a good resource getting you in touch with folks that can help get your project done.

George

George D

I am in Tucson. Come on down and drive my car, and we can go over the particulars of the build.

George

tone3721

PM sent. Also would like to make a trip down south soon. Let me know what your schedule is like.

FRporscheman

I don't think you can take piston squirters out of a block.

I'm really glad I read this thread - I thought 951 head studs would work just fine and that's what I was going to use!

DFASTEST951

Wait, who ever you go with to build your motor, get a list from THEM. They will be the ones putting it together. Get the list in writing. Go out and find the parts at your best price. Everyone builds a bit different and has different ways. You will get so much advice here it will run you crazy. I already see a bad outcome from this as this motor seems doomed from the start. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck and keep us informed

tone3721

Doomed from the start? How do you figure? Its a pretty straight forward process, once you know all the components you need. Thing is as soon as people find out your doing a 3.0 turbo conversion, its funny, cause the parts cost more. Seems like people love to gouge these parts for a turbo build. Im just trying to save some loot by sourcing parts myself, thing with that is, I have to research and educate myself on exactly what is needed. The research is part of the fun tho, the plan is to do my own build on a future 968. The learning curve is to steep right now for this one, as down time is everything, and I need a daily driver..... Its also nice to see one done first, from start to finish. Once I have a project car that im not relying on to get around...I can tinker away. I really dont see how this engine build is doomed. Don Jackson is a great shop albeit more 911 inclined(like most). I know my build is in goods hands with them, thus why I hired them for the build. This isnt their first 3.0t build. Its not their specialty, but theyve built many engines for Dave at this point, I dont think there is anyone more specialized/experienced in 3.0t conversions(in this state) than Dave(powerhaus), and at this point Don Jackson is doing their builds, as like youve mentioned before Dfastest, Dave is looking to retire soon. When Dave does retire, DJ might be his successor. Only problem is powerhaus wants about twice as much for the same parts. I am 100% confident once the parts are sourced, DJ will have no problems building them.......with a warranty even.

dand86951

Necessary? Well the engine will run without them, but Porsche put them in the 968 and 911 series for good reasons. When you are building a 3.0 litre, I would put them on the list of necessary. You can, or a good shop can find the squirters, they may not be 968 exact replacement, but the 911 squirters will also work and they are not hard to find. Then a good machine shop can machine the 2.7 block and insert the squirters.

My opinion is that having extra oil on the bottom of the piston is a very big plus especially when you consider the horsepower per cylinder the 3.0 liter can make. From stock 968 of a little under 60BHP per cyl to over 100Bhp per cylinder you have to get the heat out. It provides extra margin for heat rejection and adds extra oiling for the piston pin.

Olli Snellman

Building a 3.0 Liter is not rocketscience, it's the same thing as you build any other engine. It's good approcach to take your time and source parts for a good price. That's what i did and i can say i got all the necessary "big block" parts (S2 block/S2crank/new 2,7L head) quite attractive price (800€). Last week there was almost new 968 crank/rods/pistons/oil pump for sale in the Finnish Porsche forum for 150€. Unfortunately i missed that, but some one made a good deal

Euro951

Save yourself some time and money. Build the stock engine back up with original displacement and concentrate on other parts of the car. You can bore your block for oversize pistons as long as you find a machine shop that can properly finish hone an alusil bore. You can then have JE Pistons make pistons for you in any size you want and then have the skirts Swain coated. You can still make alot of power on a stock 2.5l without the extra agrevation.

DFASTEST951

Not doomed, I take that back tone. I just mean you should get the parts the DJ would use himself. I applaude you for trying to get the best deals on parts. I just hope you don't accidentally cut a corner that will shorten the life of your motor. Good luck with it. I hope it all works out. Keep us informed.

tone3721

Today is my bday, and decided the plan today, after talking to DJ. Ill be going with everything they provide, except crank, and head. I found the head for 375, and crank for 1200. Ill save a few bucks, but this keeps powerhaus in the loop, who have a great knowlegde, and experience of 3.0 t's. Plus, the crank and head ive sourced from parts heaven, DJ and parts heaven do quite a bit of business together already, so im not really going to far outside the box for parts. I thought eh **** it, all I want for my birthday is a 3.0t so ill spend a little extra, but the assurance of a quality build is there. I have a couple sources for complete engines built to check out still, but unless theyre gonna run me about less than 9 or 10k built.....it will end up being more in the long run, than it would for them to just get it done.