tommo951

Hi Everyone,

I have heard a few people talk about using coil on plug (same on on Cayanne) on 951's. Just wondering if the benefits are worth the effort? And what works would be required for installation?
Has anybody completed an actual installation?
Cheers
Tom

Cory9584

youd be kind of tight on space for it and you would have to make some kind of brackets to hold them down. imo its alot of trouble for not much of a benefit over a dis

ausgeflippt951

The benefits are extremely minimal; the only evidence I've seen that they're worth a damn is when direct-injecting and extreme tuning circumstances. It's taking a problem w/ a one-part solution and turning it into a problem with a four (or eight or whatnot) part solution. So much unnecessary complication from everything i've read on it, except for the aforementioned circumstances.

nick_968

Tom

I looked at this and although a couple of 944 guys rave about this setup, when I discussed it with my Motec guy he said he had actually seen people go from wasted spark coilpack setups and lose power in a couple of cases. What he said is the gain depends what system you are switching from and in the case of the 944 that switching to wasted spark with the Motec would probably not be much different from running coil on plug with Motec. In other words the extra hp that may or may not be gained will not be worth the extra cost and effort compared to just using a zetec coilpack for about £50.

DanG

I've mocked up some Honda F4i COP units to see how they fit...

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/v...51/block/head/





I'm not too happy with them. Much too long, I've decided to run GM LS2 "CNP" units, or coil near plug. They're nice as they're logic level input, internal ignitors. And they'll fit better, I'll squeeze them under the manifold (probably not all in line like this picture)...

special tool

Fitting them them is not really the hard part.
The goal is to fire them (properly) and tune the dwell and spark gap on the dyno so that you may find the 2 or 3 hp over wasted spark or 20 hp over distributor benefit which will come only once you have gone over about 470 crank hp.
This is the power level where I was having spark issues with the dist, although the Vitesse wasted spark picked up about 20 hp on the dyno at merely around 400 crank hp.

TRP951

you might have picked up 20hp ST but what about tq?

Geneqco

ST... I'm interested in the source of this extra power... is it just that the stock system cannot support the strength of spark required for good combustion at those boost/power levels?

Or does this also allow you to use a colder plug and therefore more boost before you have to retard timing because of detonation?

What plugs were you using?

Have you (or anyone else) experimented much with colder plugs? If so, how significant were the hp/tq improvements?

Thanks

Markus951

Cayenne Turbo COP-s are Plug and Play as far as the lenght and fitment is concerned only if yoy are using 16 valve head..like I am.. for 8 valve head they are too long. Alot cheaper option to use AUDI 1.8T COP-s witch should fit as good and cayenns....and easier to find.. Cayenne is using DENSO COP-s and audi is using BOSCH COP-s if i remember.. I ve also seen people talking that audi cops are limited 80hp per cilinder but this is total bull****.. Ive seen them in 5cil audi engine with 700+hp.. As ST allready say'd its all about tuning.. and precise spark - I am keeping my bosch coilpack, witch even fits the stock 968 spark plugs - should look nice OEM when its done!

Markus

anders44

sooooo has anyone used the ls1 cop? or can verify what markus says about 1.8T cop?

evil944t, how did it your CNP work out ?

A.Wayne

DAn, We have used those COP to excellent results ( 175 bhp/ cyl) they are also used by Zytec and others on their ALMS/Lemans engines...

Contrary to popular beliefs , A boosted engine does not need a big spark , they require a consistent spark , At high boost pressure there is enough heat to ignite the spark and consistency is the key....

The advantages of COP is packaging , there is no ignition HT wires to leak and get wet it makes for a tidy package ,, you will not see HP gains unless you had a weak ignition system to begin with ... with high boost engines you need to close ignition spark gaps , most factory wastespark and cop engines will work to very high power levels and spark plug type is just as important as what ignites it .

Most mega joule ignition systems are needed on Alcohol engines , where the low latent heat and slow burn rate of the fuel will require this , the same setup on a gas engine will require spare pistons , to anyone not atune to working with such ....

A.Wayne

THe Audi /VW COP's are Pretty unreliable , some years were good, some were weak , most were unreliable.... they look the same , but they are not all the same ...you have to read the part number ,, i would not use them ...

Geneqco

To anyone who knows... where is the best place to source the Honda F4i COP units and what sort of $ can I expect to pay?

Thanks

Raceboy

Cayenne uses BERU coils. Also, Carrera GT, 996 TT, GT2 etc use the same coil. But even with them, first batches were crap and revised versions got up to sniff.

As Wayne stated, it makes a huge difference what COP to use. There are only very few modifications of VAG active coils to use as all others are crap (poor spark and unreliable). Passive coils are better: strong spark and they work but also you can end up on the unreliable batch.

RPHARRIS

I thought about it for quite a while. My ignition is controlled by an EDIS module so I could do a COP setup any time I like. It's just a matter of buying some coils and wiring them up in place of the coilpack. So why didn't I do it? I have heard from numerous sources that the Motorcraft coilpack is as good as any OEM setup out there (and better than many of its aftermarket equivalents). To improve on it would be more expensive and time consuming than initially percieved. It's also nice being able to run down to Kragen, Napa, or wherever if I ever need to replace ANY part of my ignition system.