Coil on Plug Instalation
09-15-2007, 04:38 PM
#31
Formula One Spin Doctor
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F4i COPs don't have built in ignitors (AKA "dumb coils"). The LS2 CNPs I'll use on my car do (AKA "smart coils"). However, you can build your own ignitor circuit for about $6/coil.
Keep in mind that COPs are only as good as their controlling hardware. The MS I'll use can send an individual signal to each of the 4 coils (or up to 6), but its going to be the same signal repeated to each one. So it may be sequential, but its not capable (yet) of individual cylinder trim. If you ask me, individual cylinder trim on timing is rarely necessary. The advantages of sequential verses waste spark ignition are also negligible on our low rpm (<10k) application. A wise man would just tune a waste spark system correctly on a dyno and be done with it.
Sequential fueling, on the other hand, can be very helpful in trimming individual cylinders to the correct conditions. Air flow patterns and fuel requirements vary much more than ideal timing values. Its only necessary for people looking for that last percent or two, or for people that want to run things as close to the edge as possible.
I'm going to run COP/CNPs primarily because they clean things up underhood, and have a marginally hotter potential spark. I prefer not having long plug wires draped all over the engine bay or an ugly distributor at the end of the cam. But I'm not expecting my system's results to be wildly different from what I'd get developing a standard cap/rotor based system.
Keep in mind that COPs are only as good as their controlling hardware. The MS I'll use can send an individual signal to each of the 4 coils (or up to 6), but its going to be the same signal repeated to each one. So it may be sequential, but its not capable (yet) of individual cylinder trim. If you ask me, individual cylinder trim on timing is rarely necessary. The advantages of sequential verses waste spark ignition are also negligible on our low rpm (<10k) application. A wise man would just tune a waste spark system correctly on a dyno and be done with it.
Sequential fueling, on the other hand, can be very helpful in trimming individual cylinders to the correct conditions. Air flow patterns and fuel requirements vary much more than ideal timing values. Its only necessary for people looking for that last percent or two, or for people that want to run things as close to the edge as possible.
I'm going to run COP/CNPs primarily because they clean things up underhood, and have a marginally hotter potential spark. I prefer not having long plug wires draped all over the engine bay or an ugly distributor at the end of the cam. But I'm not expecting my system's results to be wildly different from what I'd get developing a standard cap/rotor based system.
Sequential Ign on a 944 is just as important as doing seq fuel, more important when using low octane fuels...
COP will work on any engine Most pro based systems will allow you to use any ignition coil and type . The vibration that effect COP are COP's with built in ignitors....
09-16-2007, 01:42 AM
#32
Scott, your first question is why I didn't want to use the F4i COPs after test fitting. They secure to the plug only at the threaded portion on the top, and a little bit of insulating boot around the side. Finding plugs with threads on the top (you can thread on a standard bulb to connect to a regular spark plug wire) isn't an issue in my book, as the NGK-R copper plugs I prefer to use are available like this.
So Dan, are you saying the the F4i COPs actually screw onto the plug rather than just pushing on as in the case of spark plug leads?
09-16-2007, 02:09 AM
#33
Three Wheelin'
No, there's a spring clip that makes the hole in the COP D shaped that clamps on the threads of the plug. It ruins the threads after the first time or two on and off.
They work great in the DOHC heads they're designed for, but this thread clamp method isn't sufficient for use on our cars. You'd have to make a separate sleeve type upper mounting provision to hold the bulk of the mass in place. And they stick up past the manifold a bit, possibly hood clearance issues.
They work great in the DOHC heads they're designed for, but this thread clamp method isn't sufficient for use on our cars. You'd have to make a separate sleeve type upper mounting provision to hold the bulk of the mass in place. And they stick up past the manifold a bit, possibly hood clearance issues.
09-16-2007, 05:09 PM
#35
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Rick Cannell in the UK has COP successfully running on his 951. He is using the Wolf 3D EMS to control it. YOu can find pics of it on his website: http://www.cannell.co.uk/
Fen also had it running on his Autronic EMS.
Not sure if it is a mod to get significantly more power but apparently it does make the engine run better. He's running 400bhp and returning decent fuel economy (I know it is not a big issue for you guys in the states). Can't tell you much more about it unfortunately.
Fen also had it running on his Autronic EMS.
Not sure if it is a mod to get significantly more power but apparently it does make the engine run better. He's running 400bhp and returning decent fuel economy (I know it is not a big issue for you guys in the states). Can't tell you much more about it unfortunately.
09-16-2007, 05:13 PM
#36
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ANother link to take you straight to the start of the pics: http://www.cannell.co.uk/944%20Turbo%20-%2069.htm
09-16-2007, 08:43 PM
#37
Rick Cannell in the UK has COP successfully running on his 951. He is using the Wolf 3D EMS to control it. YOu can find pics of it on his website: http://www.cannell.co.uk/
Fen also had it running on his Autronic EMS.
Not sure if it is a mod to get significantly more power but apparently it does make the engine run better. He's running 400bhp and returning decent fuel economy (I know it is not a big issue for you guys in the states). Can't tell you much more about it unfortunately.
Fen also had it running on his Autronic EMS.
Not sure if it is a mod to get significantly more power but apparently it does make the engine run better. He's running 400bhp and returning decent fuel economy (I know it is not a big issue for you guys in the states). Can't tell you much more about it unfortunately.
01-08-2012, 12:39 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Just dragging this one back from the past. Did anyone pursue the C.O.P. setup? If so, how did you mount them? What boost and fuel are you running? Any issues?
01-08-2012, 05:52 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
If you're bored.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...ld-thread.html
05-10-2016, 05:37 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Necro'ing this - anyone in 2016 running COPs on an 8V head? Thinking about losing my LS coil-near-plug setup in favor of COP - purely for packaging reasons - when the new motor goes in. Concern is securing them, I was thinking of having a fore/aft brace they would all bolt to, and then attach that brace to the head with something like these. The CNP works great but I'd have to do a different setup anyway to clear the turbo stuff and excess heat - may as well evaluate this option.
05-11-2016, 01:16 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Not 8V but have VAG 1.8T COP for my 16V turbo. Ran into a couple of mounting/packaging issues though. First, the COP is about 5mm too short. They physically fit onto the plug but don't have enough clearance to be positioned the same way across all four on the valve cover. 968 valve covers may work better due to the change in profile. Second, the rubber bellows at the top of the COP are too small in diameter to secure the COP into the spark plug cavity. Scavenging the bellows from a set of 16V plug wires and installing on the COPs cured the issue.