Penguinracer

I'm new to this forum & 951 ownership. I'm just trying to get a handle on what is the current "state of the art" & the various schools of thought on what are the best after market turbos for the 951.

I've read about Lindsey Racing's KKK-Garrett hybrids & I've seen a bit of discussion about Vitesse Ball Bearing turbos. I've been to the Vitesse site - but there are no detailed specifications about the products. What brand & spec are theses turbos & how do they compare to what LR has to offer?

anders44

what would be nice is published data on them so you could calculate, but I don't think lr or vitesse publishes this? correct me if I'm wrong.

pete95zhn

It's easeir to get classified data from GRU/KGB/FSB's archives than the information you just asked for.

BUT, where ever you buy your turbo from, make sure it's either original and legitimate, or well-built hybrid from some trustworthy vendor, like those you mentioned above.
Be warned that there's a lot of cheap chinese copys out there ( in e-bay, for example ).

evil 944t

[QUOTE=pete95zhn]It's easeir to get classified data from GRU/KGB/FSB's archives than the information you just asked for.QUOTE]

Ha ha ha, thats a good one!

Porschefile

Garrett GT series are about as state of the art as it gets, but they take a decent amount of custom work. Innovative Turbo also makes some nice stuff. There isn't really much info out there on Vitesse turbos so there is no way to make a comparison to anything else because of that. As far as claims that VR turbos are more efficient, more responsive, etc than the GT series, those claims have yet to be substantiated and are highly unlikely. LR and SFR both sell decent turbos, and at least they give you some general info on what you are getting.

ehall

Vitesse doesn't sell BB turbos. As far as sunstantiated evidence, I've yet to see ONE SINGLE DISSATISFIED CUSTOMER, but I see plenty or bull**** guessers and nay sayers, who think it can't be done because they haven't done it.

Jeremy Himsel

Well, I'm with ehall on this one. I have however driven two GT turboed 951's (one with a GT 25 and the other with a 30) and they did not spool anywhere close to my Stage 2 and it took 25psi to make 400 at the wheels. Personally I wasn't impressed and walked away from buying the car because of it. One of them was a Technodyne, Cervelli built car. So speculate all you want but until you have some real world experience installing a dual BB turbo on a 951 and can give can give some quantitative data regarding HP and spool times I think you're out of line doubting what "owners" of these turbos say. Everybody rants and raves about how great the BB turbo's are, and a few dozen guys even read maximum boost and they are instant experts on compressor selections, but everyone is looking for experience and quantitative data on someone else's dime. I wish some of these ball bearing experts would pony up and give us some numbers or proof on how great they are. Personally, I didn't see it.

Porschefile, refresh my memory a bit, what turbo are you running on your 951 and how much power is it making?

jgporsche

From his past threads, he looks to be installing a GT35R


https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/315992-garrett-gt35r-install.html

pozican

Not trying to start anything.
[/disclaimer]

If the price wasn't over double his competitors, then I might consider purchasing it without knowing any stats other than customer approval.

But currently it kinda seems like a cult... Just drink it! Everyone likes the kool-aid!

Jeremy Himsel

No I believe that was a fair statement. I've been dealing with Vitesse for quite some time now and he charges good money for his products. We all know that and some of us don't mind paying the money for a well supported, proven solution. One thing I will say is that many owners of his products know exactly what the specs are however it is somewhat of a leap of faith at first. Anyone who purchases them can use a dial caliper to spec one out. I actually lost somewhat of a friend because I wouldn't let him measure my turbo or give up the wheel sizes.

Doesn't it make you wonder why there are dozens of stage 2 owners on this board and none of them will give up the specs? Odd isn't it? They paid double what a "similar" turbo would cost and still keep thier mouth's sealed.

Cory9584

cant forget pauer tuning. www.pauertuning.com

Porschefile

First off, it is impossible to compare 2 different turbos that are of different sizes to each other. Without knowing turbo specs, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY TO MAKE AN ACCURATE COMPARISON BETWEEN 2 TURBOS. Regardless of whether any of you guys own a VR turbo, if you have no idea what the physical sizing is of all of the components on it, then you cannot accurately make a comparison as to which is "better". Small differences in compressor/turbine/hotside sizing can have huge differences on boost threshold, spool time, and overall power output capability.

Throw a small hotside on a turbo and walah, you've just made it spool quicker, although at the sacrifice of how much power it will support. Can anyone tell me why people with VR stage 3's struggle to make much more than ~340-350whp on pump gas at ~18psi? Small hotside. Compare that to something around a Gt30r sized turbo which has similar power output, except put a .82a/r hotside on it and your GT series will be a bit laggier, however it will support more total power on pump and race gas.

Those of you, you know who you are, proponents of VR turbos, many of you do absolutely nothing but make broad, general and useless statements about his turbos without providing any kind of actual scientific evidence to support it. I, for one, am getting sick a friggin tired of it. They perform well, that's great. However you cannot make wishful claims that they are more efficient, spool more quickly, make more power, etc then something like the Garrett GT series without offering some kind of actual and physical evidence to support it. It's all internet heresay. Who here has actually used GT series turbos or at least knows enough to relate their VR turbos to GT series of similar sizes? I've been using the GT series for years on lots of other cars. I could be friggin John Force and this community would still shun people like me just because they haven't "built" a 951 yet. Blah blah friggin blah. Get over yourselves. That's great that you enjoy your turbos, and I'm glad you've found something that works for you that you like. Just don't have the gaul to practically go claiming it's the second coming of turbos or anything and expect to not be called on it. Provide some actual facts or proof to back those claims up or keep it to yourselves.

I'm installing a Gt35r w/ .82 hotside, probably a dry sump from David Mcgrath, and plenty of other stuff that will probably take me a year to complete. I'm shooting for 600whp. I would like to be more reasonable with my expectations and do a 3076r w/ .82 for a more realistic 400whp however I feel like exploring the limits of this drivetrain for myself since not many tend to do that in this community (at least not as many as in other communities I'm used to).

fortysixandtwo

Under Pressure Performance also has their own line turbos. http://www.area951.com/

special tool

Dude - what the hell is a "walah"?
Is that one of those kangaroos in New Zealand with 3 *********?
Do you mean "voila"?

Porschefile

Your supposed example has no basis in reality. Do you know what exact GT turbos were on those cars, what hotsides were being used, etc etc. Just because a car didn't "feel" good to you doesn't necessarily mean that they were running properly at the time, didn't have any issues, or that the turbos were even of any comparable size. I have actually used lots of GT series turbos, as well as regular thrust bearing Garrett's, Precision Turbos, Turbonetics turbos, and plenty of other stuff. I have enough experience to realize that although the GT series aren't the be all and end all of turbos, they are about as good as it gets from an off the shelf turbo. How many types of turbos have you used?



That's a broad blanket statement that offers no form of actual real support of anyone's VR turbo claims. Again facts please.

I was under the impression that VR does offer to do a custom BB conversion if the purchaser so desires, though he doesn't recommend it as far as the value/$ ratio goes. Not one single dissatisfied customer doesn't mean anything and certainly isn't a valid sentence for supporting any claims as to whether their turbos are "better" or not. You might find it astonishing but, in the American judicial system, a lack of proof doesn't prove a single thing.

Penguinracer, just some friendly advice but, take everything you hear from everyone here with a grain of salt (and that includes me). Far too often people's feelings and personal opinions/preferences innacurately portray things like clutch engagement, how sporty a tire feels, etc. I think with the internet you pretty much have to question everything to arrive at any real truth. I'd highly suggest browsing through this forum for dyno sheets to see some no nonsense proof of what various turbo setups are capable of. Everyone knows what they say about opinions.