Porschefile

Hehe, you got me there, you're right. I had to think about how to spell that for a second. I must be loosing it. It's probably because you guys are driving me crazy!

special tool

Well then...while we're at it....

Did you mean "losing" it?

Unless you have something else loose???

Alright, sorry.

SoloRacer

To be fair to John though it would have to be pointed out that nobody has come up and proven that a GT series turbo will perform better on a 951 than his products. I come from the RX7 world where turbo specs are well known and prices for generic turbos are low. However, if you want to go with a proven kit - like say a Greddy T-78 or an HKS T-51 SPL - you pay through the nose and they don't give you the specifications either. People have tried to guess what they are and replicate them on the cheap and most times they end up with a lesser product (worse spool, less power, etc.)

You getting your knickers in a knot and saying that GT series turbos are better for our cars because they work great on other cars is just as bad as one of us saying "Slap a Vitesse turbo on your Nissan and make more power than a GT series turbo because it works great on a 951". If we made those claims you would be the first to slap us down.

hot-J

So my Vitesse stage III is not a ball bearing turbo? And it spools like THAT!!!? Now I am even more impressed......

Porschefile

Actually HKS does provide turbo specs, and there are a few retailers out there that have close to full specs sheets for their turbos. They are no doubt expensive as hell though. I'm just trying to challenge people to think for themselves. I don't care which turbo is better but, I personally feel the need to call people on baseless claims that don't have supporting facts. By now I think we've all seen enough dynos to have a good idea of how certain VR turbos perform and the power they produce. Up to this point, we still haven't really seen any results AFAIK from the GT series on our cars (dynos or any kind of hard proof) so people that haven't used both types can't honestly say one is better than the other.

hosrom_951

You would need to inform everyone what are you looking for, in terms of power levels.

Both vendors are good, both sell bolt on kits (everything you need, not just a turbocharger). Do a quick search, you will find happy customers from both sides, Lindsey does have a wider selection though (i believe 4 turbochargers for the 2.5L engine).

ehall

Okay... In a more civil tone

"As far as claims that VR turbos are more efficient, more responsive, etc than the GT series, those claims have yet to be substantiated and are highly unlikely."

based on what do you base this info? If you don't know exactly the make up of VR turbos, you're statment is baseless and non-factual.
Back atcha...

oh wait I'll answer for ya...
"There isn't really much info out there on Vitesse turbos so there is no way to make a comparison to anything else because of that."

Your words pal.

DDP

ST at one point, in an older thread, claimed that John @ Vitesse had tested GT-Series turbos to his Vitesse turbos, back to back. John claims his turbos outperform the GT series turbos. If those two statements are true, wouldn't you think John would WANT to post up the info he had from his back to back testing? Wouldn't that help him sell a few more turbos and just end this ongoing debate GT vs Vitesse?

fast951

There is so bunch BS on this thread, it's not even funny. To clarify things, unless I say that Vitesse turbos are BB, do not assume they are. I wish some people actually read what they write, maybe they wouldn't come across like they do. Those that stood up for VR, I appreciate it.
There are those that talk, and those that do. Vitesse turbos are a proven product, they perform as advertised.
Porschefile, when you get the GT35 installed and running, I want to see how much boost you can run on pump gas. Have you ever tuned a 951? Do you think ignition has anything to do with limiting boost on pump gas? An idiot can retard the timing far enough to raise the boost a bit, in the process EGTs go up through the roof, and forget about any crisp response. Do you think a safety margin is needed, just in case someone get some bad fuel?
You come here and talk big, you try to slam me every chance you get. If you have a problem with me, let's hear it. You keep slamming my community, yes I feel this is my community. Everyone else here feels it's their community as well. Based on your negative comments toward this 951 community, since this 951 community is so uneducated and no one pushes the limits, maybe you should move back to your "better" community. Enough is enough! Show us results, not some BS fast and the furious stories. All you do is complain! Not just here, I have seen some of your posts on the 930 boards (here and elsewhere). How about showing us the light? You hit 600rwhp on a 2.5L, I'll be the first to raise my hat!
Does anyone else feels that there is so much negative going on here, that it's time to do something about it?

FYI - I don't disclose the specs on the turbos because it's a copy-cat world. The minute the specs are out, vendors will copy them. Any working person would understand this.. Yet it keeps coming up. My customers do not share the specs as they understand the reason behind it.

Now, what the F&%k this thread was all about? Oh yes, turbos.. There some great deals on eBay. $199 turbos, they even have a wheel that spins. That's a great deal! who wants to try it first and let the rest of us know the results?

fast951

Thank you so much for your concern. Much appreciated! Yes I would like to sell more turbos. I have tested many turbos, there is a reason why I chose the product line I sell. It was not a wild guess!
Which turbos I tested, which I used, what I liked or disliked is not something I wish to disclose. I did my homework, and customers love the results. Happy customers are the best publicity, yes much more than GT vs. VR vs. XYZ.

pozican

John, I was never trying to start anything, and I completely understand your reasoning for hiding your specs. However it's extremely hard for people like me being on such a tight budget to justify dropping so much money on something without knowing any background information on that product.

Your dyno sheets (stage 2) say nothing more than 20psi on a 951, and they vary from ~350hp to 400+hp -- That scares me, where is the difference? Clearly neither of these are stock + your stage2 kit. Or is that the difference between the 350hp and the 400hp?
There is just too many unknowns, and that is all I was trying to say.

There are other companies that release more information and more consistent dyno sheets, for half the price, that are not from ebay. And it just seems easier to justify.

I dunno, maybe down the road, when everything is prepped out for the new turbo kit, I may decide to wait another couple of weeks and pull the trigger on your kit instead, I just don't know. But for now, it seems I may get more bang for my buck elsewhere. Or again, will I?

fast951

pozican, there is no issue with you. 99.9% of the cars that get upgraded already have a test pipe and a wastegate mod. The dynos on the site are sent to me by customers, this takes away any fudge factor. The 20+psi run is from years back, due to a computer crash I lost all of the details for that particular run. As a rule, each +1psi should yield 12-15rwhp. Stage 2 is offered as a 380-400rwhp max (it can do more but not efficiently). The key element of the Stage 2 is the fast response, the fast spoolup. It's like driving a NA car not a turbo, yet it delivers the perormance we are all after. I would like to earn your business, however it might be a bit too late for Stage 2, as it's close to impossible for me to get them.

Peak numbers are useless, look at the area under the curve. I do know that my turbos are more expensive, I do not deny it. Many of you went elsewhere to save a $, nothing wrong with that. However many came back and purchased Vitesse products and turbos. Turbo response, rate of recovery, HP potential are ALL a factor when designing a turbo. This is not some BS guess work, look at a compressor or turbine map and declare the mission a success.
Since day one, I never intended to sell just a turbo. I wanted to provide a turn key package. Take the guess work out and put a smile on the driver's face.
I'm aware there are many turbo options. I'm aware that there is an audience for less expensive turbos. This is why I offered Stage 1 kit! However, I was surprised that the other stages sold 10x more than Stage 1.
I wish you the best of luck while shopping for upgrades. Do it correctly the first time, much cheaper than redoing it the second time.

DanG

Porschefile, I thought you dissected a VR Stage 4 and identified it as using a fair amount of GT and Turbonetics (GT "inspired") content?

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...88#post3360488

If that's the case, then arguments between VR and GT products are pretty pointless! Although I'd still be surprised to see data showing a GT30R (dual ball bearing) being less efficient than an equally spec'd VR-built journal bearing unit (stage 2-3 ish?).

shaheed

in other words you can't say one is better than the other, like you've been repreatedly trying to say? or does your opinion based on no actual implementation count as hard proof?

Porschefile

Look, this is getting ridiculous. I've tried to initiate an intelligent discussion of actual facts to compare turbos in the past, but it's futile with you. We've all seen the various dyno sheets of various stage turbos from you so we know what kind of power they normally make under certain conditions. There's no argument there. As far arguing response, you still refuse to have an intelligent and technical conversation about anything relating to response, power output, etc with actual facts to back up your statements. The burden is on you to back up your claims, so stop trying to flip the debate around on me to change the subject or avoid the question. Lets review:

Thread #245739: Link Post #10 dated 1-1-06 You said you only talked to people running GT series turbos to come to that conclusion. So you mean to say you haven't done any actual testing, or have you since done some GT setups we don't know about? No actual proof except to generalize a pointless statement saying all of your customers know what's up while implying the tone that other turbos might be subpar. Geez, you are either a cunning linguist or the "tone" of most of your posts is just surprisingly convenient. Oh well, I'm bored so here's some more:

Thread #245739: Link Post #108 dated 1-4-06 In response to Duke's question, ST makes the claim that you've actually tested GT vs Vitesse turbos back to back. So are we to believe that within 3 days time you threw a couple GT turbos on and actually tested them after you just got off the phone with some people that supposedly had? Or was ST just mistaken? It's your duty, IMO at least, as a retailer to correct any inaccurate remarks so as to keep from disinforming the community. Yet after that post by ST, 4 pages later, 68 posts later, and after multiple people requested proof of these claims you did nothing to correct any incorrect statement about whether you had or had not actually tested GT series turbos. You also did not provide any kind of factual evidence to support those claims if you had in fact tested the GT series. You posted two more times in that thread after ST's post so we know you didn't just miss that post, especially after being reminded of it by several people asking for proof afterwards. We can only speculate if you kept quiet to indirectly give the appearance as if you had done actual testing. So which is it? Have you or haven't you actually tested the GT series?

I could sit here and dissect more of your posts but, to be honest I really just don't even care any more. I'm usually not this hostile towards people however, I always feel the need to question everything I'm "told" as everyone isn't always perfect or right. I'm sorry, I just don't get a good impression from your posts and agressive (or indirectly so) marketing tactics. You are far too evasive.

Post some proof or stop making baseless claims. I know there are others here that are a bit fed up too.