nize

what system do you use? can you list the features of your system that makes it a better solution?

nize

here, i'll get the ball started with a feature-by-feature comparison. most of these are listed as selling points for the tec3 system on their website. please chime in with other systems, and help clarify, add, remove features, etc;

Tms951

I think the point Race boy is trying to make is that you are one of these people that have a product and since it is the one you have you want to believe it is the best and have convinced yourself of this with out having any experience with other systems but by just comparing features listed on each companies web sight. I have had a conversation with you about the Wolf and it was like trying to reason with a small child so I gave up on it and I stopped responding.

No one is saying the Wolf does not have its benefits and place in the market; it is just your approach to going on about how great it is annoying and abrasive, and you seem to be extremely narrow minded about the merits of other systems.

nick_968

Have you guys not forgotten the golden rule when buying an EMS is to buy one based on who is going to tune it and how familiar they are with the software, otherwise you will never have an optimum system or you will spend a small fortune while your tuner learns how to program your choice of ECU.....! When you know which one or two systems he is familiar with, then you can make your choice. For the few who will do all their dyno tuning themsleves, for the money they can save on paying someone else they can afford to choose the best. If money is no object then Motec is the winner, for more of a budget then go for Autronic, for a mid range system any of the units discussed above will more than do the job so look a little further than the features list and go with what your tuner recommends!!

Duke

I fully agree with you and others responds regarding how difficult it is to get a reliable knock signal.

The PLX R500 I'm using (well, not really at the moment) has an inbuilt filter that you setup at first. You simply run the engine through the rpm range where you are certain there is no knock and make a noise signature for the engine. I also believe the Link G3 EMS have the same knock filtering feature.
That makes the knock signal a bit more useful.

I also agree that the human ear can be pretty darn good when trained. A crude but very effective way is to attach a copper brake line to a bolt on the block and hook up a pair of ear muffs to it.
Or you can build your own listening device and hook up. In fact, I'd rather tune using those methods than a knock sensor only.

A side note.. How the JS Safeguard with Wolf 3d works I don't know. I read a test of the Safeguard and where there was audiable knocking for the dyno operator the Safeguard still didn't respond. Who knows, maybe the sensor didn't work right but it made me a bit skeptical.

Cory9584

A bit off topic but hows your car coming along duke

nize

before i decided on which system to go with, i researched various systems so at the time i was aware of exactly what i was getting. it seems most of the people who slam other systems do so without knowing anything about other systems. what i'd like to know is what made someone decide to choose one product over another? did they actually research the differences in the products before making their decision, or did they just go with hear-say and speculation?

chris and everyone else who is running a standalone; why did you choose your various systems over competing products?

it seems nobody here knows how to comparison-shop and love jumping on bandwagons.

and fyi, i am not tied to the wolf3d system. if there's a better solution out there, i can easily unplug the wolf, sell it, and swap to a different system. i'd like to know what reasons there are to make the swap, though.

nize

i think a better solution is to learn to tune yourself, or find a tuner that's willing to teach you how.

Duke

Speaking of the devil I'm actually working on the new engine and EMS harness right now!!

Porschefile

Hahaha, well put TMS!

Nize, just chill out and give some honest thought to what others are saying. I, and I believe others here, are not trying to say that there is any real downside to knock sensing capabilities. All we're saying is that's just a piece of the puzzle and there are plenty other EMS' out there without knock sensing capabilities that work just fine and have for many years. Nize, you come off as putting down every other EMS simply because it doesn't have a feature that yours does. That really seems a bit closed-minded and certainly isn't going to make everyone reply nicely. The Wolf3d system seems to be pretty decent, but it's hardly the be all and end all of aftermarket EMS'. I'd highly suggest finding someone with some advanced Motec experience and ask them some questions or have them show you some stuff if you really want to see some of the best EMS technology at work. Oh, just FYI, if you want to see some really cool technology, check out this place: Blackline How about a Motec based datalogging/tuning setup that has high precision GPS data streaming capabilities, and can be connected to through Bluetooth. I mean you could potentially datalog/tune with a PDA or Blackberry! How cool is that?! Can your Wolf3d do that?

anders44

my engine mgmt will log to my cell phone via bluetooth, they are also working on usb memory stick support I belive.. allthough not critical, it's bloody cool!

as for the discussion, this is reminding me of a linux distrowar with a bunch of sealots.

as for tuning, and understanding mapping of the engine, it's a science of it's own. I have owned multiple cars with aftermarket standalone ecu's and done alot of related stuff, yeah sure if I was to tune a backyard toy I would do it myself, but when tuning something that will go close to 300kmh and not blow up? I'll pass! you gotto know your limitations.

as an example of hard knock is, ford used thousands of hours on the knockcode for the focus RS, and they are smarties with white labcotes! (my workplace won't allow us white cotes anymore )

p.s. the tuner I use has access to the ems sourcecode and can compile custom **** in it, neatness.

one last thing. who here uses aim mxl dash thingys?

Tms951

Most everyone hear has already said it two or three times, SUPORT. That means a person close by who is familiar with the system and can dyno tune it. Then number 2 is going to be price.

The Motec and Electromotive are two of the most popular systems out there, making these two the best chioces because of wide spread suport and not being an obscure system only one or two people in the country are goos with. I don't think any one would argue that the Motec is not a little better, but also more expensive. So most people in this comunity pic the Tec because of price and that it does everything you need and more. I have so many things on the tec I don't even use, like knock, that I am not in the least bit worried about what features it doesn't have because I don't need them. I just don't agree that more features make it better, that is such a small aspect of what makes a good stand alone, there is a much bigger picture you are missing.

I personaly picked the tec beause there was someone half an hour away from me who could give me suport and dyno tune it well.

Tuning it yourself is all fine and well, I to learned how to tune my car and how my system works. But you would be a fool to think that you will get a half way decent map with out doing the timing on a dyno, there is no other way. You might make a map that drives well but doesn't make the power it should.

Of all of the fantastic features the Wolf has how many are you actualy useing.

A.Wayne

LOL, no sour grapes here ,

Never said you had a bad tune , read my statement again, also recommend a little more subject matter on knock sensors and how they work in relation to engine noise and knock frequency...
If you are using a generic knock system the way you have described , i stand by my original statement....

A.Wayne

I dont think he did ....

A.Wayne

Doing this kind of comparision does'nt solve anything , as you can advertise any
feature and it does not tell you the quality of the product...nor does it tell you if the features listed functions correctly .

You should do it by performance , actual proven performance on the dyno and then in the field ,why ? at the end of the day it is all about the performance , is it reliable at that power level , is the performance repeatable , this way it is more objective , currently , you have turned this into pissing contest...
as you will not address the answers given....