Standalone EMS...?
#256
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by A.Wayne
LOL, no sour grapes here ,
Never said you had a bad tune , read my statement again, also recommend a little more subject matter on knock sensors and how they work in relation to engine noise and knock frequency...
If you are using a generic knock system the way you have described , i stand by my original statement....
Never said you had a bad tune , read my statement again, also recommend a little more subject matter on knock sensors and how they work in relation to engine noise and knock frequency...
If you are using a generic knock system the way you have described , i stand by my original statement....
#257
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by A.Wayne
I dont think he did ....
it's obvious that chris white, you, and anyone else that's slamming knock protection and the wolf system doesn't know anything about the system because none of you have actually compared different standalone systems side-by-side before deciding your system was the one to use.
#258
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Doing this kind of comparision does'nt solve anything , as you can advertise any
feature and it does not tell you the quality of the product...nor does it tell you if the features listed functions correctly .
You should do it by performance , actual proven performance on the dyno and then in the field ,why ? at the end of the day it is all about the performance , is it reliable at that power level , is the performance repeatable , this way it is more objective , currently , you have turned this into pissing contest...
as you will not address the answers given....
feature and it does not tell you the quality of the product...nor does it tell you if the features listed functions correctly .
You should do it by performance , actual proven performance on the dyno and then in the field ,why ? at the end of the day it is all about the performance , is it reliable at that power level , is the performance repeatable , this way it is more objective , currently , you have turned this into pissing contest...
as you will not address the answers given....
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
#259
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by nize
that doesn't change the fact that companies like tec3 blatantly advertise those same features as their main selling points. i'm comparing what tec3 and other standalone systems themselves advertise.
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
edit - I looked it up off their site, Wolf has been around since the early 90's.
#260
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by nize
that doesn't change the fact that companies like tec3 blatantly advertise those same features as their main selling points. i'm comparing what tec3 and other standalone systems themselves advertise.
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
Why do we keep getting back to tec3 and wolf , Is that what this is about , then you need to take it up with tec3.....
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#261
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Why do we keep getting back to tec3 and wolf , Is that what this is about , then you need to take it up with tec3..... ![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#262
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by clouddomino
Which is the best system? I'm more than likely going with Tec3. Anyone else out there have a standalone? What are the opinions???
![](http://autopia.org/forum/images/smilies/work.gif)
#263
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
it would really help if people running standalone systems would point out the benefits of their systems, instead of trying to downplay or criticize features their systems might be lacking.
does anybody else see this?
does anybody else see this?
#265
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by nize
it would really help if people running standalone systems would point out the benefits of their systems, instead of trying to downplay or criticize features their systems might be lacking.
does anybody else see this?
does anybody else see this?
Nize, perhaps you can share some more about your installation and tuning experiences with the Wolf as well as its data logging etc.
#266
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#267
Three Wheelin'
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by nize
that doesn't change the fact that companies like tec3 blatantly advertise those same features as their main selling points. i'm comparing what tec3 and other standalone systems themselves advertise.
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
if features don't matter, why bother using them as selling points?
if you're referring back to the 'proven on the racetrack' theory to compare performance and reliability, race-winning track cars have been using the wolf system far longer than the tec system.
Whoopty friggin' do. Yay for you! You got your first aftermarket engine management and are tuning it yourself! WELCOME TO THE TWENTY FIRST CENTURY JACKASS! I apologize to everyone else as I don't like to act that hostile but, you leave me little choice, Nize. So far, from what I gather, you have experience with one aftermarket ems. What gives you the right to form such a hostile and negative opinion (again, that's what it seems like to me) on everything else when you have absolutely no experience. Grow up! Wolf 3d being used in professional racing? Honestly, outside of the 944 community I think I've only ever seen it mentioned 1 or 2 other places. I'd be willing to bet my life that the number of Electromotive, Motec, SDS, and Haltech systems out there on pro race cars far outweighs the number of wolf setups. Just get over yourself and have a little humility. Nothing wrong with liking what you have, but don't have the gall to go around putting everything and everyone else down that doesn't agree. Humility is, I think, something that some members of this forum lack. That's enough out of me.
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
#268
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Another thing I would consider in selecting a standalone system is familiarity as well as compatibility with other cars I have, which is obviously not relevant for the first time buyer. However it is also very important to have well written documentation (manuals), not just for immediate tuning, but for possible changes down the road necessitated by performance upgrades. I doubt the average user will be able or willing to memorize the manual for the lifetime of the product.
On that point I have to say that Electromotive’s documentation leaves a little to be desired. Their very first manual (DOS for the TEC-1) had a lot of acronyms at that time unknown to me, so I had to create a one page acronym decoder. In the TEC-3 manual I was unable to decipher their description of the idle control and had to have it explained by Clewett, only to realize that it was the same as for the TEC-1 (the TEC-1 manual had explanatory graphs, while the TEC-3 manual didn’t). In other words Electromotive must have lost some technical writing skills.
Btw, it is possible for one person to tune and optimize an engine management system (if it has data logging and a trustworthy oxygen sensor) without a dyno, but it is awfully tough and time-consuming. The dyno can be substituted by driving on the street with one foot on the brakes and the other on the accelerator while acquiring data. A set of brake pads is cheaper and provides more scheduling flexibility than half a day of dyno time.
Laust
On that point I have to say that Electromotive’s documentation leaves a little to be desired. Their very first manual (DOS for the TEC-1) had a lot of acronyms at that time unknown to me, so I had to create a one page acronym decoder. In the TEC-3 manual I was unable to decipher their description of the idle control and had to have it explained by Clewett, only to realize that it was the same as for the TEC-1 (the TEC-1 manual had explanatory graphs, while the TEC-3 manual didn’t). In other words Electromotive must have lost some technical writing skills.
Btw, it is possible for one person to tune and optimize an engine management system (if it has data logging and a trustworthy oxygen sensor) without a dyno, but it is awfully tough and time-consuming. The dyno can be substituted by driving on the street with one foot on the brakes and the other on the accelerator while acquiring data. A set of brake pads is cheaper and provides more scheduling flexibility than half a day of dyno time.
Laust
#269
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Porschefile
Whoopty friggin' do. Yay for you! You got your first aftermarket engine management and are tuning it yourself! WELCOME TO THE TWENTY FIRST CENTURY JACKASS! I apologize to everyone else as I don't like to act that hostile but, you leave me little choice, Nize. So far, from what I gather, you have experience with one aftermarket ems. What gives you the right to form such a hostile and negative opinion (again, that's what it seems like to me) on everything else when you have absolutely no experience. Grow up! Wolf 3d being used in professional racing? Honestly, outside of the 944 community I think I've only ever seen it mentioned 1 or 2 other places. I'd be willing to bet my life that the number of Electromotive, Motec, SDS, and Haltech systems out there on pro race cars far outweighs the number of wolf setups. Just get over yourself and have a little humility. Nothing wrong with liking what you have, but don't have the gall to go around putting everything and everyone else down that doesn't agree. Humility is, I think, something that some members of this forum lack. That's enough out of me. ![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
i still haven't seen you contribute any useful information regarding what system you're running and why you chose to run it.
#270
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle, washington - usa
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Laust Pedersen
Another thing I would consider in selecting a standalone system is familiarity as well as compatibility with other cars I have, which is obviously not relevant for the first time buyer. However it is also very important to have well written documentation (manuals), not just for immediate tuning, but for possible changes down the road necessitated by performance upgrades. I doubt the average user will be able or willing to memorize the manual for the lifetime of the product.
On that point I have to say that Electromotive’s documentation leaves a little to be desired. Their very first manual (DOS for the TEC-1) had a lot of acronyms at that time unknown to me, so I had to create a one page acronym decoder. In the TEC-3 manual I was unable to decipher their description of the idle control and had to have it explained by Clewett, only to realize that it was the same as for the TEC-1 (the TEC-1 manual had explanatory graphs, while the TEC-3 manual didn’t). In other words Electromotive must have lost some technical writing skills.
Btw, it is possible for one person to tune and optimize an engine management system (if it has data logging and a trustworthy oxygen sensor) without a dyno, but it is awfully tough and time-consuming. The dyno can be substituted by driving on the street with one foot on the brakes and the other on the accelerator while acquiring data. A set of brake pads is cheaper and provides more scheduling flexibility than half a day of dyno time.
Laust
On that point I have to say that Electromotive’s documentation leaves a little to be desired. Their very first manual (DOS for the TEC-1) had a lot of acronyms at that time unknown to me, so I had to create a one page acronym decoder. In the TEC-3 manual I was unable to decipher their description of the idle control and had to have it explained by Clewett, only to realize that it was the same as for the TEC-1 (the TEC-1 manual had explanatory graphs, while the TEC-3 manual didn’t). In other words Electromotive must have lost some technical writing skills.
Btw, it is possible for one person to tune and optimize an engine management system (if it has data logging and a trustworthy oxygen sensor) without a dyno, but it is awfully tough and time-consuming. The dyno can be substituted by driving on the street with one foot on the brakes and the other on the accelerator while acquiring data. A set of brake pads is cheaper and provides more scheduling flexibility than half a day of dyno time.
Laust
i would say the brake-driving method saved me a ton of money in dyno time.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
great advice laust !