951's vs Crotch Rockets
09-20-2004, 10:12 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by RPG951S
Here's a great TopGear video of Car vs. Bike on a racetrack. Bottom line: Car wins. http://www.unknownzone.be/zones/cars/c4vsr1.wmv
SimonK, I really enjoyed your post #42.
09-20-2004, 10:46 PM
#62
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like a good flame war as much as anyone else, but I was going to let this one die. But I was called ignorant so I just can’t.
First off in the original post, it wasn’t weather a 951 could beat any one bike it was:
“I was wondering if any of you guys can keep up or beat up on bikes, on the highway of course. What kind of power does it take? What kind of bikes? thanx!”
Then we had Lithium state the following:
“Damn guys, you mean to tell me there are no fast 951's at all around here? I come from the supra world (just totaled mine actually ) and looking to get a 944 turbo and building it up... Anyhow, my supra was around 500HP, and i spanked a few bikes on the HW, killed a R6 from a 80 roll and beat a few liter bikes from 100+. Bikes are fast yes, they will kill 95% of all stock cars, but with some power and going from a roll its not a problem. Ive been in several supras which walked away from busas HARD. One put down 972rwhp, and we raped a busa from 80 to about 190+...”
Well, the only videos I have seen of Pupras racing Busas were the Walser one. I can post them if we need to see. But I saw one race where the supra won and it didn’t “pull away hard”.
Look at my response. I said:
“99.99% of the time a 951 won't beat a reasonably fast bike (this exclude things like a ninja 250, interceptor 500, etc)”
Where does that say a 951 will beat a Hayabusa?
“I think your wrong about your general statement's with supra owner's. Ofcourse there are bad aples but, not all of them are that way. Oh and if you referring to the supra high speed thread on supraforum's where the big busa boy's came outta the wood work...I ain't surpirsed. Some of those bikes were just sick.”
I am not sure what forum it was on (it was a while ago and my ginko ain’t that good) but that sound correct. It was basically all the Pupra boys talking a bunch of smack for Walser after those video were put out. Walser himself cam on and backed down REALLY fast. It wasn’t to just “sick” Hayabusas either. Like I said, he wouldn’t even race one with less than $1000 in modifications. I guess if $1000 in modifications is sick, then I am not sure what sane is? An oil change? Every Pupra owner I have run into when riding the Hayabusa has been the same. That’s why I say they are all ricers. They get whooped and then want to do ricer flybys. So I guess they all might not be like that, but 100% of them that I have been around have been.
“Dana, dont be so ignorent man, if you own that bike and that nice 944 i would expect more knowledge from you. I personally took down many 600 cc bikes with only 500hp, and witnessed and taped MANY highways runs with 800+ HP supras vs liter+ bikes. Bikes loose steam fast up top due to drag, supras are highway monsters, plain and simple.”
I guess they might loose steam. How many cars do you know of that can top 190 in under a mile? Is that loosing steam? 600s, yes they aren’t as fast up top, but you will need miles to catch them from what they did down low.
“Finally, the ultimate test car versus bike: F1 destroys GP bike (Ralf versus Rossi) at about 30 seconds per lap. F1 rules as the fastest earth moving cornering device designed period.”
Can’t compare the two. Keep in mind racing isn’t about the fastest thing. Its about being fastest within the rules. The bike have limits put on them for safety of what FIM feels is safe. Cars are the same way.
“Here's a great TopGear video of Car vs. Bike on a racetrack. Bottom line: Car wins.”
If you have ever ridden a bike on a track with a car, you will know how insane that statement is.
If you look at my webpage I have roadraced motorcycles and the 951. I have had them on the same track. The bike (a Honda RS125 making around 40hp) was faster than the 951. I know that people say “watch this internet video” to prove something. I suggest that if you want a more objective look, that you read April 2002 Motorcyclist (I would assume that the same article appears in Motor Trend). This was a joint Motor Trend – Motorcyclist comparison with telemetry data for the entire track for a stock GSXR1000 vs a stock Z06. The only changes were both were shod with Michelin DOT race tires.
If you look at the article they have straight speeds, corner speeds, etc. Most of the corners the GSXR was going 10 to 15 mph faster through the corner. There were points when the bike was 40mph faster than the Z06.
Here is what the magazine said about cornering:
“Here’s another eye opener. Both the car and the bike showed remarkably consistent cornering speeds in the middle of Turn Two, which is essentially a big, bumpy constant radius skid pad. The bike railed around, averaging 97mph, plus or minus 2 mph, for an amazing 1200 feet. For the same distance, with the same consistency, the car averaged 85. Remember that this Z06 is about the fastest cornering street car you can buy”
They also test the car and bike on a drag strip. Here’s what they said:
“Lets put too fine a point on it. The GSX-R happens to be faster in the top end, but even if it weren’t, it would vault up to speed so much faster than any street car [they should not have used “any”] that in a real world dragrace, it would be literally out of sight befoe the cars 5 to 10 mph advantage let it start to catch up (if you could find a straight long enough – which you can’t)”
I suggest that you guys really get out and race a bike or two if you think you are that fast. You shouldn’t believe me or the others. The urban legend of these “street” cars (maybe somewhat “street-legal”) is mostly in the realms of other urban legends. Yes there are a few fast cars out there that can beat a Hayabusa, but few and far between.
Funny how even the Pupra boys say that sick Hayabusa came out of the woodwork. And this was for their hero. Funny how the fastest Pupra around the country (at least at that time) had to back down to quite a few Hayabusas. What do you think you odds are better of finding, a sick Hayabusa or a sick Supra? For every one Pupra that thinks they can beat a Hayabusa, there are lines of Hayabusa sitting around to prove him wrong.
Lithium, I wish you were near me. It would be fun to show you what a Hayabusa can do.
-Dana
First off in the original post, it wasn’t weather a 951 could beat any one bike it was:
“I was wondering if any of you guys can keep up or beat up on bikes, on the highway of course. What kind of power does it take? What kind of bikes? thanx!”
Then we had Lithium state the following:
“Damn guys, you mean to tell me there are no fast 951's at all around here? I come from the supra world (just totaled mine actually ) and looking to get a 944 turbo and building it up... Anyhow, my supra was around 500HP, and i spanked a few bikes on the HW, killed a R6 from a 80 roll and beat a few liter bikes from 100+. Bikes are fast yes, they will kill 95% of all stock cars, but with some power and going from a roll its not a problem. Ive been in several supras which walked away from busas HARD. One put down 972rwhp, and we raped a busa from 80 to about 190+...”
Well, the only videos I have seen of Pupras racing Busas were the Walser one. I can post them if we need to see. But I saw one race where the supra won and it didn’t “pull away hard”.
Look at my response. I said:
“99.99% of the time a 951 won't beat a reasonably fast bike (this exclude things like a ninja 250, interceptor 500, etc)”
Where does that say a 951 will beat a Hayabusa?
“I think your wrong about your general statement's with supra owner's. Ofcourse there are bad aples but, not all of them are that way. Oh and if you referring to the supra high speed thread on supraforum's where the big busa boy's came outta the wood work...I ain't surpirsed. Some of those bikes were just sick.”
I am not sure what forum it was on (it was a while ago and my ginko ain’t that good) but that sound correct. It was basically all the Pupra boys talking a bunch of smack for Walser after those video were put out. Walser himself cam on and backed down REALLY fast. It wasn’t to just “sick” Hayabusas either. Like I said, he wouldn’t even race one with less than $1000 in modifications. I guess if $1000 in modifications is sick, then I am not sure what sane is? An oil change? Every Pupra owner I have run into when riding the Hayabusa has been the same. That’s why I say they are all ricers. They get whooped and then want to do ricer flybys. So I guess they all might not be like that, but 100% of them that I have been around have been.
“Dana, dont be so ignorent man, if you own that bike and that nice 944 i would expect more knowledge from you. I personally took down many 600 cc bikes with only 500hp, and witnessed and taped MANY highways runs with 800+ HP supras vs liter+ bikes. Bikes loose steam fast up top due to drag, supras are highway monsters, plain and simple.”
I guess they might loose steam. How many cars do you know of that can top 190 in under a mile? Is that loosing steam? 600s, yes they aren’t as fast up top, but you will need miles to catch them from what they did down low.
“Finally, the ultimate test car versus bike: F1 destroys GP bike (Ralf versus Rossi) at about 30 seconds per lap. F1 rules as the fastest earth moving cornering device designed period.”
Can’t compare the two. Keep in mind racing isn’t about the fastest thing. Its about being fastest within the rules. The bike have limits put on them for safety of what FIM feels is safe. Cars are the same way.
“Here's a great TopGear video of Car vs. Bike on a racetrack. Bottom line: Car wins.”
If you have ever ridden a bike on a track with a car, you will know how insane that statement is.
If you look at my webpage I have roadraced motorcycles and the 951. I have had them on the same track. The bike (a Honda RS125 making around 40hp) was faster than the 951. I know that people say “watch this internet video” to prove something. I suggest that if you want a more objective look, that you read April 2002 Motorcyclist (I would assume that the same article appears in Motor Trend). This was a joint Motor Trend – Motorcyclist comparison with telemetry data for the entire track for a stock GSXR1000 vs a stock Z06. The only changes were both were shod with Michelin DOT race tires.
If you look at the article they have straight speeds, corner speeds, etc. Most of the corners the GSXR was going 10 to 15 mph faster through the corner. There were points when the bike was 40mph faster than the Z06.
Here is what the magazine said about cornering:
“Here’s another eye opener. Both the car and the bike showed remarkably consistent cornering speeds in the middle of Turn Two, which is essentially a big, bumpy constant radius skid pad. The bike railed around, averaging 97mph, plus or minus 2 mph, for an amazing 1200 feet. For the same distance, with the same consistency, the car averaged 85. Remember that this Z06 is about the fastest cornering street car you can buy”
They also test the car and bike on a drag strip. Here’s what they said:
“Lets put too fine a point on it. The GSX-R happens to be faster in the top end, but even if it weren’t, it would vault up to speed so much faster than any street car [they should not have used “any”] that in a real world dragrace, it would be literally out of sight befoe the cars 5 to 10 mph advantage let it start to catch up (if you could find a straight long enough – which you can’t)”
I suggest that you guys really get out and race a bike or two if you think you are that fast. You shouldn’t believe me or the others. The urban legend of these “street” cars (maybe somewhat “street-legal”) is mostly in the realms of other urban legends. Yes there are a few fast cars out there that can beat a Hayabusa, but few and far between.
Funny how even the Pupra boys say that sick Hayabusa came out of the woodwork. And this was for their hero. Funny how the fastest Pupra around the country (at least at that time) had to back down to quite a few Hayabusas. What do you think you odds are better of finding, a sick Hayabusa or a sick Supra? For every one Pupra that thinks they can beat a Hayabusa, there are lines of Hayabusa sitting around to prove him wrong.
Lithium, I wish you were near me. It would be fun to show you what a Hayabusa can do.
-Dana
09-20-2004, 10:46 PM
#63
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Alright to put this dog to rest I think I am going to need to upload my video of me vs a 2003 r6 from 40-140mph.
You guy's have seen my kill video's my car isint exactly slow....and you can see how I did. I wish I had video taped that run with me vs him starting at 100mph on the tollway....I did catch up to him and pass him at around 160mph. I had a length on him at 170mph. It shows just how much the wind plays a part.
trying to run any newer sport bike from anything remotely slow like 20-40-60roll and your gonna get killed.
You guy's have seen my kill video's my car isint exactly slow....and you can see how I did. I wish I had video taped that run with me vs him starting at 100mph on the tollway....I did catch up to him and pass him at around 160mph. I had a length on him at 170mph. It shows just how much the wind plays a part.
trying to run any newer sport bike from anything remotely slow like 20-40-60roll and your gonna get killed.
09-20-2004, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rage2
it takes a LOT more ***** to do 150mph on a bike than in a car, which gives us a nice advantage.
The problem is that people ASSUME that just because a bike has the potential to go that fast, the rider does too. I've been 140mph on a bike, and let me tell you, I am NEVER going to do that again.
09-20-2004, 11:41 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
I'd just like to make a simple comment about all the people that seem to think bikes are only for straight line riding. 99% of my riding is back road, fun, twisty stuff. I don't ride for speed on the highway. That's just a great way to get yourself killed. Bikes are very fun to throw around a tight back road. It takes alot of skill to ride a bike well, just as it takes alot to pilot a Porsche well.
09-21-2004, 12:11 AM
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09-21-2004, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyrus951
Exactly!
The problem is that people ASSUME that just because a bike has the potential to go that fast, the rider does too. I've been 140mph on a bike, and let me tell you, I am NEVER going to do that again.
The problem is that people ASSUME that just because a bike has the potential to go that fast, the rider does too. I've been 140mph on a bike, and let me tell you, I am NEVER going to do that again.
You are assuming that the bike rider doesn't have the potential....
That could be an emabarrasing assumption.
Just because YOU don't want to do 140 on a bike, why do you assume that applies to me?
-Dana
09-21-2004, 12:23 AM
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Dana chill dude. I don't think anyone here is saying that bikes are easy to beat. In a 951 you would have to have alot of hp and run one from a roll to keep up or possibly beat.
You act like bikes are unbeatable. Maybe from a standing start but, bikes at higher speeds run outta gas. I myself have beaten two of them for that reason. I have also gotten my butt handed to me trying to race one down low.
I have seen plenty of bikes get beat by friends supra's on the tollway's around here. Just because its got 600 or 1000cc's don't mean it can't be beat. You need around 500+rwhp in a supra to pull a 600 from a higher roll and you need about 650+rwhp to pull liter bikes from higher roll's. Notice I didn't say from a 20 roll. We are talking 60-70mph roll's. If the only video you have ever seen of supra's beating bikes is the walser one then you havent' been online looking for supra video's in a very long time.
I personally have video's taped on George bush turnpike from a 800rwhp TT vette,660rwhp single, turbo supra,550rwhp supra, I even have a video of a modded GSR teg putting 520fwhp down all beating bikes.
Bikes are fast as hell but, nothing is un beatable. The busa would prolly be the hardest bike to beat....but, how often to you run into a busa....much less a modded one. They are a minority. Most of the time you run into cbr's,r6's,r1's,TL1000's,ect.
You act like bikes are unbeatable. Maybe from a standing start but, bikes at higher speeds run outta gas. I myself have beaten two of them for that reason. I have also gotten my butt handed to me trying to race one down low.
I have seen plenty of bikes get beat by friends supra's on the tollway's around here. Just because its got 600 or 1000cc's don't mean it can't be beat. You need around 500+rwhp in a supra to pull a 600 from a higher roll and you need about 650+rwhp to pull liter bikes from higher roll's. Notice I didn't say from a 20 roll. We are talking 60-70mph roll's. If the only video you have ever seen of supra's beating bikes is the walser one then you havent' been online looking for supra video's in a very long time.
I personally have video's taped on George bush turnpike from a 800rwhp TT vette,660rwhp single, turbo supra,550rwhp supra, I even have a video of a modded GSR teg putting 520fwhp down all beating bikes.
Bikes are fast as hell but, nothing is un beatable. The busa would prolly be the hardest bike to beat....but, how often to you run into a busa....much less a modded one. They are a minority. Most of the time you run into cbr's,r6's,r1's,TL1000's,ect.
09-21-2004, 12:26 AM
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the twin turbo vette vs the busa was my favorite though. Maybe I could upload some of these vids for you. I wouldn't want you calling bs on me or anything. I respect bikes very much...but, nothing in this world is un-beatable.
09-21-2004, 12:27 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by porshhhh951
but, how often to you run into a busa....much less a modded one. .
But, I run into one everyday.
-Dana
09-21-2004, 12:37 AM
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I live in dallas where highly modded sport's car's and bikes flourish. Maybe we you live it's different. I just see more cbr's,and r6's than anything else around here.
Infact I ran into a turbo gsxr600 several weeks ago at the lewisville meet. I think he said he was on 11psi. Bikes are fast stock...and a heavily modded bike well there just crazy. I just don't see many modded 1300cc super bikes.
I also don't see anyone actually trying to race a turbo bike in a car...that would be pointless. Like that one dude with 500+rwhp in his busa...I mean nothing on the planet is going to run with that other than another turbo busa ya know.
I have lot's of his video's. I am sure you have seen them. Very very impressive.
Infact I ran into a turbo gsxr600 several weeks ago at the lewisville meet. I think he said he was on 11psi. Bikes are fast stock...and a heavily modded bike well there just crazy. I just don't see many modded 1300cc super bikes.
I also don't see anyone actually trying to race a turbo bike in a car...that would be pointless. Like that one dude with 500+rwhp in his busa...I mean nothing on the planet is going to run with that other than another turbo busa ya know.
I have lot's of his video's. I am sure you have seen them. Very very impressive.
09-21-2004, 12:39 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by DanaT
I don't think anyone is arguing with you.... but showing a clip of a 14.5 sec corvette run..........says more to me about the driver than the car...
If it will make you feel better...........yes .......ALL BIKES WILL BEAT ALL CARS !!
But here is a crazy clip of some crazy locals who don't believe you.
http://members.shaw.ca/dynomotive/stangvsbusa.wmv
09-21-2004, 12:46 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by SimonK
09-21-2004, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DanaT
You are assuming that the bike rider doesn't have the potential....
That could be an emabarrasing assumption.
Just because YOU don't want to do 140 on a bike, why do you assume that applies to me?
-Dana
That could be an emabarrasing assumption.
Just because YOU don't want to do 140 on a bike, why do you assume that applies to me?
-Dana
09-21-2004, 01:37 AM
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END OF THREAD.
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