88 Twin Turbo Dyno Update! - 5 liter - 941hp/751tq at the rear wheels! - Video Added
07-26-2013, 08:14 PM
#61
Former Sponsor
Most likely spends most of it's life making 125hp.....like everyone else's car does.
The impressive thing is that it can do both...although I'm not sure what changes need to made to get from one "mode" to the other.
Just push on the throttle? Map change? Flip a switch? Change injectors? Change fuel pressure?
Maybe Todd will share....it would be great to know how much it takes to go from grocery getter to bullet.
Last edited by GregBBRD; 07-26-2013 at 08:37 PM.
07-26-2013, 08:19 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
Most likely spends most of it's life making 125hp.....like everyone else's car does. The impressive thing is that it can do both...although I'm not sure what changes need to made to get from one "mode" to the other. Just push on the throttle? Map change? Flip a switch? Change injectors? Change fuel pressure? Maybe Todd will share.
07-26-2013, 08:58 PM
#63
Probably a bit tough to find a place to put down 825hp or 980hp....and probably tough to keep it full of E85, when it does make that kind of power. I'm guessing that you'd almost need an Air Force Refueling Tanker to keep fuel in it....
Most likely spends most of it's life making 125hp.....like everyone else's car does.
The impressive thing is that it can do both...although I'm not sure what changes need to made to get from one "mode" to the other.
Just push on the throttle? Map change? Flip a switch? Change injectors? Change fuel pressure?
Maybe Todd will share....it would be great to know how much it takes to go from grocery getter to bullet.
Most likely spends most of it's life making 125hp.....like everyone else's car does.
The impressive thing is that it can do both...although I'm not sure what changes need to made to get from one "mode" to the other.
Just push on the throttle? Map change? Flip a switch? Change injectors? Change fuel pressure?
Maybe Todd will share....it would be great to know how much it takes to go from grocery getter to bullet.
Its the time spent tuning, and more tuning. And then waking up and tuning. Pulling over and finding out where that little dip in power came from. What cell is that in? Supposedly the boost comes on very nicely, without a hard hit, because of the tuning as well.
LOL on the fueling tanker. Basically true, but worth it.
07-26-2013, 11:02 PM
#64
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Probably a bit tough to find a place to put down 825hp or 980hp....and probably tough to keep it full of E85, when it does make that kind of power. I'm guessing that you'd almost need an Air Force Refueling Tanker to keep fuel in it....
Most likely spends most of it's life making 125hp.....like everyone else's car does.
The impressive thing is that it can do both...although I'm not sure what changes need to made to get from one "mode" to the other.
Just push on the throttle? Map change? Flip a switch? Change injectors? Change fuel pressure?
Maybe Todd will share....it would be great to know how much it takes to go from grocery getter to bullet.
Most likely spends most of it's life making 125hp.....like everyone else's car does.
The impressive thing is that it can do both...although I'm not sure what changes need to made to get from one "mode" to the other.
Just push on the throttle? Map change? Flip a switch? Change injectors? Change fuel pressure?
Maybe Todd will share....it would be great to know how much it takes to go from grocery getter to bullet.
Last edited by RonnyÅ; 07-27-2013 at 04:40 AM.
07-27-2013, 12:02 AM
#66
Nordschleife Master
07-27-2013, 09:06 AM
#67
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Dayum.
Just.
Dayum.
Awesome Todd.
Just.
Dayum.
Awesome Todd.
07-27-2013, 11:06 AM
#68
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Sounds like Greg means most are used to get the groceries.
Todd,
Nice work.
Time to take it to the strip and see what it will do.
Last edited by inactiveuser1; 07-27-2013 at 06:18 PM.
07-27-2013, 04:38 PM
#69
Nordschleife Master
Where is all this authority coming from?
I can tell you that at about 650 rwhp my car drives just fine. At low gears, I run lower boost settings and at high gears I run higher boost. I have street tires, not slicks. Traction is acceptable and acceleration is good. No problems with reliability, I have thousands of miles on it. Not all of it full throttle, of course, but I drove it pretty damn fast for 1000 miles once with a case of red bull, refueling stops only, and with no problems.
Todd's car I believe has both traction control and by my recollection a gear specific boost control, but I am not 100% sure about the latter. After moving weight from front to rear, he's telling me that the car puts power to the ground really nicely out of the corners. Weight distribution is the key, because traction control is a bit invasive. The car hooks up and goes, like a sport bike. It's been run at over 800 rwhp for maybe two years already?
George Suennen's car lives just fine with boost and 500 some rwhp in ORR runs. Of course, that's with a bottom end built by Jim Morton so it's not exactly stock, but the components themselves were not exotic or very expensive (just well thought out). Given the loss from the supercharger, that car burns a lot of fuel and makes a lot of gross power, yet the engine survives.
How about other cars built by John Kuhn? How about all the cars with Tim Murphy's kits, they are plenty and they make power? Where are all these destroyed engines and broken drivetrains?
I just don't believe at all that 928 gearboxes or driveline are in any way especially fragile. All evidence from high powered street cars is that when the transmissions are properly cooled, they are very robust. Yes, people racing on slicks sometimes break 928 gearboxes, but tell me what competitive race car on sticky tires and run over curbs never breaks gearboxes?
So I don't mean to be combative, I just want to know what data are you basing your views on?
I can tell you that at about 650 rwhp my car drives just fine. At low gears, I run lower boost settings and at high gears I run higher boost. I have street tires, not slicks. Traction is acceptable and acceleration is good. No problems with reliability, I have thousands of miles on it. Not all of it full throttle, of course, but I drove it pretty damn fast for 1000 miles once with a case of red bull, refueling stops only, and with no problems.
Todd's car I believe has both traction control and by my recollection a gear specific boost control, but I am not 100% sure about the latter. After moving weight from front to rear, he's telling me that the car puts power to the ground really nicely out of the corners. Weight distribution is the key, because traction control is a bit invasive. The car hooks up and goes, like a sport bike. It's been run at over 800 rwhp for maybe two years already?
George Suennen's car lives just fine with boost and 500 some rwhp in ORR runs. Of course, that's with a bottom end built by Jim Morton so it's not exactly stock, but the components themselves were not exotic or very expensive (just well thought out). Given the loss from the supercharger, that car burns a lot of fuel and makes a lot of gross power, yet the engine survives.
How about other cars built by John Kuhn? How about all the cars with Tim Murphy's kits, they are plenty and they make power? Where are all these destroyed engines and broken drivetrains?
I just don't believe at all that 928 gearboxes or driveline are in any way especially fragile. All evidence from high powered street cars is that when the transmissions are properly cooled, they are very robust. Yes, people racing on slicks sometimes break 928 gearboxes, but tell me what competitive race car on sticky tires and run over curbs never breaks gearboxes?
So I don't mean to be combative, I just want to know what data are you basing your views on?
okay.....I don't want to be the negative nancy of this thread.....
but dyno's are one thing......and unfortunately when torque and hp both go up at steep angles it makes the car EXTREMELY hard to drive (think like Supras that make stupid power up high, but suck at EVERYTHING other than drag racing)......600ftlbs is NOT EASY to put down at all....nearly impossible in a street car on street tires....on race slicks (320's) you can do it IF the driveline can hold up.....which a street 928 setup CAN NOT DO....sure it can survive a 5 sec pull on the dyno or maybe 10 seconds on the street....but its just flat out too much for a stock driveline 928 to handle.....
Regardless of E85 or street gas....this type of power makes insane amounts of HEAT.....having turbos UNDER THE PEDALS......honestly I don't like that either, but for its designed purpose of a street-dyno car its okay....I have driven a Miata that had headers that got SO hot under the gas pedal it felt like my racing shoe was melting.....thats a car that makes 130whp.....
I'd say the texas mile type events are possible since they are over quick.....not enough time to melt the carpet to the gas pedal..... ORR event...NO WAY EVER....1st it would overheat and blow up or melt the drivers foot..... A track day is a no go as well.....WAY WAY TOO much power....it would break lots of driveline parts, before the engine even could overheat.....not to mention the brakes would be toast after a couple straights.....
okay stepping off my soapbox......I want a 928 that can do anything.....drive it hard all day....do ORR if I want...drag racing if I want.....whatever I want....sure I have a dedicated racer that is not street legal.....and I still break driveline parts with my brute 4.5L engine.....
but dyno's are one thing......and unfortunately when torque and hp both go up at steep angles it makes the car EXTREMELY hard to drive (think like Supras that make stupid power up high, but suck at EVERYTHING other than drag racing)......600ftlbs is NOT EASY to put down at all....nearly impossible in a street car on street tires....on race slicks (320's) you can do it IF the driveline can hold up.....which a street 928 setup CAN NOT DO....sure it can survive a 5 sec pull on the dyno or maybe 10 seconds on the street....but its just flat out too much for a stock driveline 928 to handle.....
Regardless of E85 or street gas....this type of power makes insane amounts of HEAT.....having turbos UNDER THE PEDALS......honestly I don't like that either, but for its designed purpose of a street-dyno car its okay....I have driven a Miata that had headers that got SO hot under the gas pedal it felt like my racing shoe was melting.....thats a car that makes 130whp.....
I'd say the texas mile type events are possible since they are over quick.....not enough time to melt the carpet to the gas pedal..... ORR event...NO WAY EVER....1st it would overheat and blow up or melt the drivers foot..... A track day is a no go as well.....WAY WAY TOO much power....it would break lots of driveline parts, before the engine even could overheat.....not to mention the brakes would be toast after a couple straights.....
okay stepping off my soapbox......I want a 928 that can do anything.....drive it hard all day....do ORR if I want...drag racing if I want.....whatever I want....sure I have a dedicated racer that is not street legal.....and I still break driveline parts with my brute 4.5L engine.....
07-27-2013, 06:40 PM
#71
Race Director
Where is all this authority coming from?
I can tell you that at about 650 rwhp my car drives just fine. At low gears, I run lower boost settings and at high gears I run higher boost. I have street tires, not slicks. Traction is acceptable and acceleration is good. No problems with reliability, I have thousands of miles on it. Not all of it full throttle, of course, but I drove it pretty damn fast for 1000 miles once with a case of red bull, refueling stops only, and with no problems.
Todd's car I believe has both traction control and by my recollection a gear specific boost control, but I am not 100% sure about the latter. After moving weight from front to rear, he's telling me that the car puts power to the ground really nicely out of the corners. Weight distribution is the key, because traction control is a bit invasive. The car hooks up and goes, like a sport bike. It's been run at over 800 rwhp for maybe two years already?
George Suennen's car lives just fine with boost and 500 some rwhp in ORR runs. Of course, that's with a bottom end built by Jim Morton so it's not exactly stock, but the components themselves were not exotic or very expensive (just well thought out). Given the loss from the supercharger, that car burns a lot of fuel and makes a lot of gross power, yet the engine survives.
How about other cars built by John Kuhn? How about all the cars with Tim Murphy's kits, they are plenty and they make power? Where are all these destroyed engines and broken drivetrains?
I just don't believe at all that 928 gearboxes or driveline are in any way especially fragile. All evidence from high powered street cars is that when the transmissions are properly cooled, they are very robust. Yes, people racing on slicks sometimes break 928 gearboxes, but tell me what competitive race car on sticky tires and run over curbs never breaks gearboxes?
So I don't mean to be combative, I just want to know what data are you basing your views on?
I can tell you that at about 650 rwhp my car drives just fine. At low gears, I run lower boost settings and at high gears I run higher boost. I have street tires, not slicks. Traction is acceptable and acceleration is good. No problems with reliability, I have thousands of miles on it. Not all of it full throttle, of course, but I drove it pretty damn fast for 1000 miles once with a case of red bull, refueling stops only, and with no problems.
Todd's car I believe has both traction control and by my recollection a gear specific boost control, but I am not 100% sure about the latter. After moving weight from front to rear, he's telling me that the car puts power to the ground really nicely out of the corners. Weight distribution is the key, because traction control is a bit invasive. The car hooks up and goes, like a sport bike. It's been run at over 800 rwhp for maybe two years already?
George Suennen's car lives just fine with boost and 500 some rwhp in ORR runs. Of course, that's with a bottom end built by Jim Morton so it's not exactly stock, but the components themselves were not exotic or very expensive (just well thought out). Given the loss from the supercharger, that car burns a lot of fuel and makes a lot of gross power, yet the engine survives.
How about other cars built by John Kuhn? How about all the cars with Tim Murphy's kits, they are plenty and they make power? Where are all these destroyed engines and broken drivetrains?
I just don't believe at all that 928 gearboxes or driveline are in any way especially fragile. All evidence from high powered street cars is that when the transmissions are properly cooled, they are very robust. Yes, people racing on slicks sometimes break 928 gearboxes, but tell me what competitive race car on sticky tires and run over curbs never breaks gearboxes?
So I don't mean to be combative, I just want to know what data are you basing your views on?
I just have doubts about huge HP turbo cars that have ENORMOUS intercoolers directly in front of the radiators.....and turbos directly under the pedals....I don't care what fuel you run....1200hp is HEAT and lots of it....
HOWEVER with its intended purpose as a street car its not that big of a deal.....As Doc said 99.99% of the time it cruises around just like any other 928....so it most likely will be fine....keep in mind my goals for a 928 are worlds different as is my experience....if it is not 100% reliable at full power upshifts for hours a day on track I don't want it.....
I can guarantee at 1200hp through the stock automatic it will NOT survive long at full power or as close as you can go on street tires on a track..... Simard, Devek, Kibort, Anderson, Carl all blew transmissions on a regular basis..... The automatics are clearly stronger....but George has had problems as did the late 928SS with Doc Brown Stroker doing AUTO CROSS (not open track)
What impresses me the MOST about this build is the RPM's it achieves.....custom rods-pistons and a lightened crank (I wonder how much?)......I am quite sure this is maybe the 2nd 928 engine that can achieve power above 7000....1st being Simards.... However again I wonder how the wetsump with well known oiling issues were solved, especially at high rpm.....Simard fixed his with dry sump, but I don't think this engine is.
Bottom line....this engine makes impressive power on E85 on a dyno.....I await further "results" to document its performance....since dyno's do not impress me....
1/4 mile time slip, 1 mile time slip, ORR or even a video from a track day.....
07-27-2013, 07:42 PM
#72
Nordschleife Master
Brian -- Todd actually drives the car. Perhaps some people from Wisconsin can share their stories about riding shotgun in this finely tuned machine. Or at least explain their decision to never, ever sit in that car... ;-)
07-28-2013, 10:19 AM
#73
Burning Brakes
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07-28-2013, 10:22 AM
#74
Gezus Christ Brian, how about you just say "well done" and leave it at that. 99% of us could not give a fluck about the drag strip, race track or going on an ORR.
07-28-2013, 10:49 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
