kaptnknemo

Here's the driver side, looks like its 3.0 deg advanced. Seems high from what I've read

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc_1793.jpg


Here's the Pside, WTF Look like someones been messing with my cams.


http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/pside_oops.jpg

is this 9 deg advanced or am I off one tooth and 6 deg retarded?

TIA KK

atb

Does the car pull to the left?

The 32'vr won't fit a tooth off, I'd say your 9 deg adv.

Hilton

I think you've got advance / retard round the wrong way - I did the same until Ken corrected me, and after some thought I see why (and some waving my hands in weird mystical circles)

I think to the right of the centre hole is retarded..

Your first pic is 3 degrees retarded.

Second pic is 9 degrees retarded.. looks to me like you're at the extreme end of the adjustment range on that gear (the slot allows movement +7/-9) - should be fixable by following the instructions with the 32v'r.

It should mean you're down on power by a lot!

atb

Hilton is correct, I just pulled mine out of the box and the "+" is to the left and the "-" is to the right.
Synching them up should definitely make it run smoother. My cams were retarded 4-6 degrees and I put them back straight up. The added low end grunt is nice, especially with the A/T, as is having the engine start without cranking for about 5 seconds before catching, but I really miss the old exhaust note. The car used to howl at 4K, now it just rumbles along.

PorKen

Driver's side (5-8) looks to be 2-3° retard.

Passenger (1-4) could be a cam tooth off = 7.5°, which would make both sides roughly equal.

Where are the bolt holes in the cam gear slots on the 1-4 side? If in the center or CW of center, it's likely a tooth off. If CCW of center, then it may just need adjusting.

kaptnknemo

Ok, here is the pside (1-4) with the tool removed. Just by looking at the alignment notch and the cam gear, it looks like I'm off one tooth. The hole looks to be less than one hole diameter off the center of the slot, so I'm thinking that verifies the above.



So tomorrow, I'll go get a 32mm wrench and

1. Move the left (dside 5-8) to 0
2. reposition the belt on the right (1-4)
3. Move the right side to 1 pin hole CW from the 0 to get 1deg retard per the manual...

OR

Since I care more about off the line than top speed I should
1. Move the left side to X
2.Move the right side to X

Ken, please fill in the X's

Thanks! KK

mark kibort

If you noticed from my pics, i too was this far off on the cam belt but it no way was a full tooth off. you are just slightly off .5 of a tooth. think about it. if you skip a tooth you will advance the cams 7.5 degrees but the pulley marks will be off by more to the advanced direction. you do look 9 and 3 retarded though and your belt is causing a retard based on stretch or something worn or out of position slightly.

mk

kaptnknemo

I see what MK is saying, I think. Am I suppossed to line up the center of the cut in the gear with the notch or the leading/trailing edge? Either case is about 1/2 tooth or 3.75 deg advance or retard. I don't see anything in JKs TBelt manual or on line with the Pirtle guide. BTW this is a brand new belt.

Mark, please point me to which pictures you posted? Thanks

KK

dr bob

Qualifications: I have a 32vr but have not tried it yet. Clinic Sunday with luck.

In the meanwhile, don't get confused by drive gear position. The tool indexes on the drive hub for the cam itself, so the readings you get with the needle do not reference the gear at all, except that the gear needs to be positioned correctly for the dist cap screws to reach the cam drive hub.


That said, I'd be looking at the actual position of the #1 piston first with the dial indicator to make sure TDC on the piston matches the TDC mark on the balancer. I'm sure they are very close. On vintage American V-8 engines, the marks are regularly in the +/- 2º window, for instance. British and Italian cars are worse. But they've gotten better in the last few decades. After confirming the crank and balancer are good I'd be more comfortable indexing the cams.

PorKen

There appears to be enough room in the slot to adjust, without having to restring the belt.

Stock:
5-8 : 0°
1-4 : -2°

Move torque lower in rpm (but loose a few HP off the top):
5-8 : +3°
1-4 : +1°

Note that these are assuming a cold engine, with a 1k+ mile belt. With a brand new belt, you can make both sides equal. (As the belt wears in, it creates ~2° retard on the 1-4.) With a new belt, you should recheck at 1K+ miles.

Bill Ball

Leading edge. There should be a a smaller alignment notch on the backside of the gear that lines up with the leading edge of the front notch.

Unless you are off more than 1/2 tooth, the position of the cam gear is determined solely by the length of the belt and geometry of the heads. Stretched belt or shaved heads will change things.

GregBBRD

With a new belt, the timing marks on the gears, generally line up much better than this. Most of the aftermarket belts, that we have tested, are giant "rubber" bands. These belts just keep getting longer, instead of tighter, after 6.0 "belt" units on the Porsche factory tool. The "real" belt just keeps going up in tightness using the factory tool. We've tested the factory belt and it will go all the way to 10.0 (which is as high as we dared to tighten it), without streatching.

If you are using one of the "aftermarket" rubber bands and it got overtightened, it will still read correctly on most belt tension gauges, but will cause the cam timing to be like this. The only good thing about them is that you will not have to retension them at 1,000 miles....since the "rubber" band function of the belt allow it to get shorter and still have the proper tension. Of course, as the belt changes length, the cam timing varies. It will be much closer after a few thousand miles, when using one of the "CRAP" belts.

When we see this kind of thing in my shop, we always ask the same question: "What kind of belt is on the car and how tight is it?" The answer has always been exactly the same and a new factory belt always fixes the problem.

kaptnknemo

1. Looks pretty easy to me to double check the TDC of piston #1 with TDC of the balancer. Just add an extension to my dial gage and watch for max dial position. POC. I wouldn't be surprised if something wasn't quite kosher.

2. After I do that I'll set both sides to 0, as it is a new belt from when Roger had his little belt fire sale. I don't remember the brand off the top of my head.

3. Note to Bill: maybe I'm a bit ****, but now that I see that the big notch is just a visual indicator to help us find the little notch, my little notches seem to be in the middle of the big notches. I'm gonna add them to my 3d model for show and tell.

Thanks for being patient with me!

KK

kaptnknemo

Ah, what light through yonder window brakes.

So what we really need along with the flywheel lock is a cam lock so that after we're sure that TDC crank and TDC Piston one are OK, we can position the cam gear anywhere we want (in it's slot) to adjust the belt tension. Or because both the stock and Porken tensioner tension only the bottom half (1-4 gear to crank to 5-8 gear) we can adjust the gears to get the right tension in the top half (5-8 gear to water pump to 1-4 gear).

OR....?

TIA KK

the flyin' scotsman

Rogers fire sale was with Continental belts...........not sure if they manufacture the 'factory' belts?