5.0L Screamer Motor goes to the dyno. (w/ graphs & video)
01-03-2009, 01:15 PM
#106
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So thinking about all this stuff i am wondering what the next step is and i am very curious to see if you guys (Dennis, Bill and Jim) would do a stage 2 so to speak with some tweaks to the intake. I was thinking something like the blackbird (which is unobtanium) and maybe a set of the intake side plate spacers. I have to think that those 2 mods could get you over 400 rwhp.
Yes, like every other car guy, I want to do a Stage 2. Modding would be no fun without a Stage 2.
There are definitely plans to modify an intake. I've bought a second S4 intake manifold and stripped it. Also, Jim has acquired another set of stock S4 heads. Jim already has some good airflow data on specific mods to the intake manifold. We'll be getting more data on the modded intake/stock head combo that I'll have.
It looks like 2009 is going to be the Year of the Intake. It seems like there are several projects going concurrently from all over the country to open up the breathing to these motors. Should be exciting!
01-03-2009, 01:55 PM
#107
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GB should be getting a solid A/B comparison for intake spacers on my 6.5L sometime in late January. It may not translate to a 5.0 motor, but at least it'll be hard data...
01-03-2009, 03:11 PM
#108
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I think Jim posted (In a thread originally about cam timing of all things) that the stock S4 intake flowed 220-225 CFM and that with spacers it flowed over 240.
Also it was stated that stock S4 heads flowed 260-265 CFM or there abouts. Getting the intake to at least flow as much as the heads seems to be a requirement, why not, if the heads can support that flow rate you had better be sure to make sure the damn intake can do the same, thats HP just sitting there!
01-03-2009, 04:25 PM
#109
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Blackbird hp gains are very suspect, especially with the results of my test of a huge bellmouthed inlet, mated directly to the MAF, showing a 4hp loss vs the stock system. "blackbird" will be less efficient than that. anyway, besides that debate, the side covers, if they help with 6.5 liter and 380rwhp, it will help a 5 liter at 380hp. Its all about mass flow (air and fuel). if that amount of mass of a 6.5 liter results in 380rwhp, the same mass flow, velocities, etc, will be present around those inefficient inlets blocked by the covers and be helped by the spacers in the same way.
mk
mk
I have been looking over this thread and all the threads associated with it and am getting fairly excited i must say about the prospect of buying another GT and just tuning the crap out of it to produce comparable results.
So thinking about all this stuff i am wondering what the next step is and i am very curious to see if you guys (Dennis, Bill and Jim) would do a stage 2 so to speak with some tweaks to the intake. I was thinking something like the blackbird (which is unobtanium) and maybe a set of the intake side plate spacers. I have to think that those 2 mods could get you over 400 rwhp.
Any plans on doing either of these 2 to the car and then retuning and giving it another go? I think with such an optimized engine as yours that you would see some significant gains with these two, but its really just a guess.
I know Carl was going to be doing some dyno work for his spacers to finally prove the theory thats been around for awhile now, but i would love to see a before and after ON THIS ENGINE!
Rob in LA also claims big improvements with the blackbird on his stroker, would also love to see that thing on this car.
Any such plans in the pipeline?
I do think this will be my direction with the next car i buy, I love the idea of 5.0L engine with 350 plus RWHP, i think thats all i would ever really need! Hopefully by that time a new sub $1000 shark tuner will also come to market!
So thinking about all this stuff i am wondering what the next step is and i am very curious to see if you guys (Dennis, Bill and Jim) would do a stage 2 so to speak with some tweaks to the intake. I was thinking something like the blackbird (which is unobtanium) and maybe a set of the intake side plate spacers. I have to think that those 2 mods could get you over 400 rwhp.
Any plans on doing either of these 2 to the car and then retuning and giving it another go? I think with such an optimized engine as yours that you would see some significant gains with these two, but its really just a guess.
I know Carl was going to be doing some dyno work for his spacers to finally prove the theory thats been around for awhile now, but i would love to see a before and after ON THIS ENGINE!
Rob in LA also claims big improvements with the blackbird on his stroker, would also love to see that thing on this car.
Any such plans in the pipeline?
I do think this will be my direction with the next car i buy, I love the idea of 5.0L engine with 350 plus RWHP, i think thats all i would ever really need! Hopefully by that time a new sub $1000 shark tuner will also come to market!
01-03-2009, 04:37 PM
#110
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I gotta ask, for someone who continually spouts "scientific formulas and data" to back up your claims.. how in the heck can you make a completely unscientific biased statement like that?
Just because your "bellmouth experiment" failed it has absolutely nothing to do with how my Blackbird works. The Blackbird is a combination of many different things including filter design, so one test of a specific shape entering into the MAF is irrevelant.
FYI, every dyno test and tuning done with the Blackbird showed dramatic gains in airflow. AND, I had nothing to do with any of these independent tests and wasn't even in the same state and/or the same coast when they occured.
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01-03-2009, 05:04 PM
#111
Thats because Mark's formula's only work for him, Dave.
01-03-2009, 06:49 PM
#113
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Mark K., please be careful when spouting off about a design which you have not personally tested on your own and verified, one way or the other. This offhanded comment throws doubt on a product which you know nothing about. You are usually a stickler for harder data than your Blackbird statement.
The Blackbird design, almost exactly, is being used for better airflow into 996 and 997 engines by tuners. There are several designs but they all have two pipes elegantly smoothed into a "Y" then into the MAF. Do they work, no idea. But I wouldn't make negative statements about them until I verified their perfomance enhancing qualities myself.
You are better than that,
Constantine
The Blackbird design, almost exactly, is being used for better airflow into 996 and 997 engines by tuners. There are several designs but they all have two pipes elegantly smoothed into a "Y" then into the MAF. Do they work, no idea. But I wouldn't make negative statements about them until I verified their perfomance enhancing qualities myself.
You are better than that,
Constantine
01-03-2009, 07:41 PM
#114
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Hi Constantine,
HAPPY NEW YEAR ! Best wishes to you and Dianne!
In addition to your comments, the guys that designed the Cayenne V8 might get their feelings hurt.. see PET illustration of Cayenne induction system below and note part # 10 at the bottom :-)
Too bad the inlets from the Twin Filter tubes of the Cayenne are only 3" OD(slightly less), plus the outlet into the Cayenne TB is slightly smaller than the 928 MAF...GRRRRR. Sure would have been nice to use it since it only costs $29from Porsche :-(
To Dennis and Jim, my apologies for the hijack. What you guys have done is absolutely BRILLIANT!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR ! Best wishes to you and Dianne!
In addition to your comments, the guys that designed the Cayenne V8 might get their feelings hurt.. see PET illustration of Cayenne induction system below and note part # 10 at the bottom :-)
Too bad the inlets from the Twin Filter tubes of the Cayenne are only 3" OD(slightly less), plus the outlet into the Cayenne TB is slightly smaller than the 928 MAF...GRRRRR. Sure would have been nice to use it since it only costs $29from Porsche :-(
To Dennis and Jim, my apologies for the hijack. What you guys have done is absolutely BRILLIANT!!
Last edited by DR; 11-29-2011 at 06:26 PM.
01-03-2009, 08:09 PM
#116
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Hi Ryan,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I agree with you. The Blackbird performance has even surprised me. When one of the stroker guys told me he had to increase his injector size because he could no longer get enough fuel on the top end after installing the Blackbird I was blown away.
I too would VERY interested to see what it could do on Dennis and Jim's Masterpiece.
Concerning availabilty no definate word yet, I am trying to go from purely hand made to more of a mass produced item. This can (and usually does) take a while to sort out. One of the positives of the recent downturn in the economy is some of the companies that slammed their doors in my face seemed to be more willing for lower volume production items. In the interim I am trying to get myself caught back up so I can at least make a few more "handbuilt" versions for those patiently waiting. I have about half the parts made for around 20 units so far.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I agree with you. The Blackbird performance has even surprised me. When one of the stroker guys told me he had to increase his injector size because he could no longer get enough fuel on the top end after installing the Blackbird I was blown away.
I too would VERY interested to see what it could do on Dennis and Jim's Masterpiece.
Concerning availabilty no definate word yet, I am trying to go from purely hand made to more of a mass produced item. This can (and usually does) take a while to sort out. One of the positives of the recent downturn in the economy is some of the companies that slammed their doors in my face seemed to be more willing for lower volume production items. In the interim I am trying to get myself caught back up so I can at least make a few more "handbuilt" versions for those patiently waiting. I have about half the parts made for around 20 units so far.
01-03-2009, 08:58 PM
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Hi DR,
Yes, Happy New Year to you and your lovely wife, Jeannie too!
Thanks for the Cayenne PET illustration and your follow up comments. The Blackbird design seems to be a known one with Porsche and I would presume their test results must have been good to incorporate this design into the Cayenne engine induction system.
Cheers,
Constantine
Yes, Happy New Year to you and your lovely wife, Jeannie too!
Thanks for the Cayenne PET illustration and your follow up comments. The Blackbird design seems to be a known one with Porsche and I would presume their test results must have been good to incorporate this design into the Cayenne engine induction system.
Cheers,
Constantine
01-03-2009, 09:02 PM
#118
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Hi Ryan,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I agree with you. The Blackbird performance has even surprised me. When one of the stroker guys told me he had to increase his injector size because he could no longer get enough fuel on the top end after installing the Blackbird I was blown away.
I too would VERY interested to see what it could do on Dennis and Jim's Masterpiece.
Concerning availabilty no definate word yet, I am trying to go from purely hand made to more of a mass produced item. This can (and usually does) take a while to sort out. One of the positives of the recent downturn in the economy is some of the companies that slammed their doors in my face seemed to be more willing for lower volume production items. In the interim I am trying to get myself caught back up so I can at least make a few more "handbuilt" versions for those patiently waiting. I have about half the parts made for around 20 units so far.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I agree with you. The Blackbird performance has even surprised me. When one of the stroker guys told me he had to increase his injector size because he could no longer get enough fuel on the top end after installing the Blackbird I was blown away.
I too would VERY interested to see what it could do on Dennis and Jim's Masterpiece.
Concerning availabilty no definate word yet, I am trying to go from purely hand made to more of a mass produced item. This can (and usually does) take a while to sort out. One of the positives of the recent downturn in the economy is some of the companies that slammed their doors in my face seemed to be more willing for lower volume production items. In the interim I am trying to get myself caught back up so I can at least make a few more "handbuilt" versions for those patiently waiting. I have about half the parts made for around 20 units so far.
The cardinal rule is to never go back to the guys that slammed their door in your face, when things were busy.
I've been working on a new intake system for the big engines, which we will be ready to dyno (on Mark's or Joseph's engine by the end of the month...hopefully). I'd like to be able to run air filters on both sides, like you have done on your Blackbird system. I've looked at the BMC pieces and they don't quite have the right size filter/adaptor for our airflow meters. Any chance of buying partial pieces from your system....like everything from the air flow meters forward?
Note that I'm DFL in the list of business people that post...and I'm glad I'm there. I think that makes me a really small potato in this world.
01-03-2009, 09:07 PM
#119
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DR:
When your intakes are available, I am sure we would love to A/B dyno test one. Last word on anything related Dennis' effort is up to Dennis, but if he's game, I would happily "Sharktune" things during the A/B test.
When your intakes are available, I am sure we would love to A/B dyno test one. Last word on anything related Dennis' effort is up to Dennis, but if he's game, I would happily "Sharktune" things during the A/B test.
01-03-2009, 09:10 PM
#120
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Dave:
The cardinal rule is to never go back to the guys that slammed their door in your face, when things were busy.
I've been working on a new intake system for the big engines, which we will be ready to dyno (on Mark's or Joseph's engine by the end of the month...hopefully). I'd like to be able to run air filters on both sides, like you have done on your Blackbird system. I've looked at the BMC pieces and they don't quite have the right size filter/adaptor for our airflow meters. Any chance of buying partial pieces from your system....like everything from the air flow meters forward?
Note that I'm DFL in the list of business people that post...and I'm glad I'm there. I think that makes me a really small potato in this world.
The cardinal rule is to never go back to the guys that slammed their door in your face, when things were busy.
I've been working on a new intake system for the big engines, which we will be ready to dyno (on Mark's or Joseph's engine by the end of the month...hopefully). I'd like to be able to run air filters on both sides, like you have done on your Blackbird system. I've looked at the BMC pieces and they don't quite have the right size filter/adaptor for our airflow meters. Any chance of buying partial pieces from your system....like everything from the air flow meters forward?
Note that I'm DFL in the list of business people that post...and I'm glad I'm there. I think that makes me a really small potato in this world.
Ive heard about this intake and know you cant share real specifics. But can i ask what type of design it is in basic terms ?
I am into asthetics and although i know thats not your priority, can you comment on what the thing may look like? I am very curious.
Ive been adding up the mods to the intake if i were to play with one, what with spacers, and porting and rebuilding the flappy and playing with the air horns and painting and see the number getting up there. So maybe if there is a $1,000 -$2,000 intake then that would be the way to go instead of trying to fool around with the stock piece which would still be very limiting.
Just curious if you could comment on the design of your intake and what it may look like?
Thanks