F451

I agree Jim.

heinrich

I don't know guys. I guess the stock wing and the Kibort/Fan/Anderson/Lloyd/Venninger/Shaw rice wings havew grown on me. As Ed Hughes shot by Jim Mayzurk and me in his S4 at what appeared to be 100mph differential, I clearly thought to myself (and to Jim): That thing needs a ricer wing, it looks like a rocket but needs an updated wing.

heinrich

Mr Bailey, I can verify with absolute certainty that the downforce at 140mph on the rear wing itself is enough to clip the flip-up wing into place. That takes IMHO quite a strong DOWNFORCE

Jim bailey - 928 International

One added "benefit" of the 911 ducktail was the tailights stayed cleaner ! The turbulent air tumbling down behind the tail ...That same effect dropped the CD from .41 to .40 so a bit over a 2 % difference with a spoiler that eliminated huge amounts of lift . So I wonder how much a spoiler which generates little downforce (elimination of lift) does for the CD ??

Jim bailey - 928 International

OK put a bathroom scale on top of the folding wing and press down ! let us know the force needed.

heinrich

Pretty imprecise but it took just under 30lbs for both of the flip-up wings I have ...

Jim bailey - 928 International

Ok so 140 mph and about 30 lbs ....or less than 1 % of the weight of the car or equal to having 5 more gallons of gas in the tank .... The down force is insignificant !! But thanks for the data. Can we all agree that it has very little downforce ? It acts far more as a lip spoiler than an airfoil pushing the airflow up disrupting it so it tumbles down to fill the hole behind the car.

heinrich

Jim IIRC the optimal design creates just less than zero lift. In other words a successful design is not one that pushes the rear of the cr down so hard that it slows the car? Isn't the data point that we have no lift, as opposed to having massive downforce?

Nicole

Not true. They always had some kind of wing on the car; usually the stock wing set at a slightly enhanced angle.

ROG100

Can I play please

heinrich

drool

Mrmerlin

Hey Roger wheres your black tie?? Danm nice car/wheels set you have there , I even like it without the wing, now about that wiper??? Stan

Nicole

Did you take a picture of them doing this? I can't imagine Marc and Susan to do this - I really can't.

Jim bailey - 928 International

It appears that the wingless late cars are coming out of the closet so to speak, maybe next will be the undertrays

Nicole

Can you scan just one of the pics of the White Car racing without wing, and post it here? I'm very curious to see this...