George and Rich still alive....189mph 928-S4? Flatline...
06-11-2007, 02:58 AM
#16
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I was headed into the speed trap at close to 140 when we spotted a white 928 parked well off the road. At first glance my navigator and I thought it was Bill Ball out of the race. Too bad guys! You had a nice southbound leg, I hope to see you back in action in Elko next month.
Thanks again for the GPS waypoints and course notes
they were a huge help…
Thanks again for the GPS waypoints and course notes
they were a huge help…
06-11-2007, 01:35 PM
#19
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well, top end damage, especially only head gaskets, is much better than anything on the bottom I guess 
what were the symptoms? rough running, miss firing?
Mk
what were the symptoms? rough running, miss firing?
Mk
Originally Posted by jorj7
Hello all. Thanks for all your positive support.
We had run the first 50 mile leg of the Bonneville 100 with an average speed 160.160 mph
with a top speed of 188 mph. On the second leg (down hill) we were hoping to get to the low
190s, but it wasn't to be. I've got a video of the second leg that I'll upload tomorrow.
My S4 has been dropped off at Motorsports in SLC. It's pretty sure that it was a blown head
gasket that caused the problem. Dave and company will check out the motor and get back
to me about it's condition. It's hoped to have the motor back together before the next event
in July. I was running Amsoil, but I don't think that had much to do with the problem. The
car was running about 6000 rpm at 188 mph when the trouble started.
I had just talked to Dave about getting Cometic Gaskets on Friday night, and was planning to
get them installed latter this year. Just bad timing I guess.
We had run the first 50 mile leg of the Bonneville 100 with an average speed 160.160 mph
with a top speed of 188 mph. On the second leg (down hill) we were hoping to get to the low
190s, but it wasn't to be. I've got a video of the second leg that I'll upload tomorrow.
My S4 has been dropped off at Motorsports in SLC. It's pretty sure that it was a blown head
gasket that caused the problem. Dave and company will check out the motor and get back
to me about it's condition. It's hoped to have the motor back together before the next event
in July. I was running Amsoil, but I don't think that had much to do with the problem. The
car was running about 6000 rpm at 188 mph when the trouble started.
I had just talked to Dave about getting Cometic Gaskets on Friday night, and was planning to
get them installed latter this year. Just bad timing I guess.
06-11-2007, 02:59 PM
#20
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Good to see George checked in last night. I drove home early with Bill, exhausted from a long weekend and even longer drive home (so it seemed). Here's my impressions from the navigators seat.....
The Friday practice session went well. The car handled great, our top speed was 179mph, even though the practice section was in the most technical area with very short straights. After practice we drove the southern section of the course with Bill and Paul. Then back to the hotel for the drivers meetings and final car prep that night.
Saturday morning was cool weather with little wind....perfect conditions. George and I were scheduled to be at the rear of the pack, next to last car to run the southern leg. So we set ourselves up at the start line and took pictures of every car as they left. The final group of cars are the Super Sport Division....160mph and higher class. We had plenty of time to get ready after the main group starts, as the sweep vehicles check out the entire length of the course before the top dogs get to start. George and I suited up and belted in, then waited for our turn. Confession time....I sucked at the stopwatch. After watching nearly every car start, when my turn came I started the stopwatches 1 second early, on the final yellow light instead of the green.
George hits the throttle and off we go. For some reason, he couldn't give it full throttle. It seemed to cut out/hesitate for a second or two. This continued for the entire leg. Our plan was to complete the technical section in the middle of the course about 22 seconds behind schedule. With the lack of full throttle power, we exited the curves about 35 seconds behind....need to make up more time than we planned. But the car was handling brilliantly, George was pushing an extra 10mph through the curves. I would read off "Right sweeper, 145mph, tightens on exit..." and George could run it at 155-160mph. The car would set and hold rock solid. On the long straight sections I would watch the GPS speed readout, reminding George to stay under our tech limit of 180mph. The open speed trap allowed us 5 miles to push it as fast as the car would go....we hit 189mph on the GPS readout. No 200mph club for us this time, but we kinda knew that going in, so no disappointment here. We had about 9 seconds to make up over the last 10 miles, so George pushed the speeds throught the final corners. We crossed the line just as I finished the 10 second countdown. I figured we were within a half-second, but I forgot about my mistake at the start line. Our official average was 160.160mph, about 1.4 seconds fast.....which accounts for my early stopwatch start.
On the turnaround, we were scheduled as first car out so George could finish and then set up for finish line pictures. We quickly fueled up (about 12 gallons used to go 50 miles) checked the oil and discussed the throttle issue with Bill. Then we were back to the start line and getting ready for our northbound leg. Right from the start, the throttle issue seemed to resolve itself. So we approached the long straight and speed trap at 180+mph. Entering the trap, George rolled on the throttle and I saw 185mph on the GPS.
It's then that I smelled what I thought was burning rubber. "George, do you smell that?" My first thought was tire rubber, not good at 185+mph. At the same time the car did the hesitate/shudder we experienced earlier and George saw the oil pressure guage drop quickly. "Somethings wrong, I guess that's it for us" he said. " I think I can make it to the checkpoint." The next main check point with the rescue squad and helicopter was coming up on the left as George braked us down. He had put the car in Neutral as soon as he saw the oil pressure guage drop, so we were coasting in from there. We were still carrying some serious speed approaching the checkpoint, and I thought there's no way we can stop in time. "I can't stop here, do you think we can make it to the next one?" George asked. I looked over at the instuments, and noticed the RPM's were at zero. "Did you shut it down George?' He replied that the engine died as soon as he shifted into Neutral. I looked ahead at the next checkpoint with a large motorhome parked there, about a mile away. That was the official speed trap with the radar and timing lights. There was nowhere to pull over and get off the highway, so I hoped Roger Greene in his GT3 wasn't going to come up on us at 170mph. This was not a good place to stop, every car would come thru here as fast as they were allowed. I told George "We better make it" as we coasted along.
Well, sure enough, George coasted us into the turn out and stopped next to the motorhome. Now smoke was coming out of the hood vents, so I unclipped and climbed out. I looked under the car first and George asked "What do you see?" "Nothing but oil" I said. George had the pocket knife, so I had to wait for him to exit and cut open the hood tape. We popped the hood, and were presented with an engine covered in oil. Our race was obviously over, nothing to do but get out the cameras, take pictures of everybody, and fry in the desert sun. We waited about another 20 minutes and checked the dipstick....milkshake...and not the good kind. The coolant overflow tank was empty as well. Engine was done.
All this may sound exciting now, but looking back it was actually very calm and in reality a non-event. Which is exactly the way we want it. Hats off to George for dealing calmly with a potentially catastrophic problem.
Best decision of the day?.....shifting into Neutral at 180+mph and coasting it out as soon as he saw the oil pressure drop.
So that's my perspective. It was a blast navigating at those speeds, definitely much more challenging than the lower speed classes I normally run. If the car is repaired in time for the next events this summer, I'm looking forward to another chance at 200mph...
Holy crap that was a long winded story...I gotta get some work done.
Rich
The Friday practice session went well. The car handled great, our top speed was 179mph, even though the practice section was in the most technical area with very short straights. After practice we drove the southern section of the course with Bill and Paul. Then back to the hotel for the drivers meetings and final car prep that night.
Saturday morning was cool weather with little wind....perfect conditions. George and I were scheduled to be at the rear of the pack, next to last car to run the southern leg. So we set ourselves up at the start line and took pictures of every car as they left. The final group of cars are the Super Sport Division....160mph and higher class. We had plenty of time to get ready after the main group starts, as the sweep vehicles check out the entire length of the course before the top dogs get to start. George and I suited up and belted in, then waited for our turn. Confession time....I sucked at the stopwatch. After watching nearly every car start, when my turn came I started the stopwatches 1 second early, on the final yellow light instead of the green.
George hits the throttle and off we go. For some reason, he couldn't give it full throttle. It seemed to cut out/hesitate for a second or two. This continued for the entire leg. Our plan was to complete the technical section in the middle of the course about 22 seconds behind schedule. With the lack of full throttle power, we exited the curves about 35 seconds behind....need to make up more time than we planned. But the car was handling brilliantly, George was pushing an extra 10mph through the curves. I would read off "Right sweeper, 145mph, tightens on exit..." and George could run it at 155-160mph. The car would set and hold rock solid. On the long straight sections I would watch the GPS speed readout, reminding George to stay under our tech limit of 180mph. The open speed trap allowed us 5 miles to push it as fast as the car would go....we hit 189mph on the GPS readout. No 200mph club for us this time, but we kinda knew that going in, so no disappointment here. We had about 9 seconds to make up over the last 10 miles, so George pushed the speeds throught the final corners. We crossed the line just as I finished the 10 second countdown. I figured we were within a half-second, but I forgot about my mistake at the start line. Our official average was 160.160mph, about 1.4 seconds fast.....which accounts for my early stopwatch start.
On the turnaround, we were scheduled as first car out so George could finish and then set up for finish line pictures. We quickly fueled up (about 12 gallons used to go 50 miles) checked the oil and discussed the throttle issue with Bill. Then we were back to the start line and getting ready for our northbound leg. Right from the start, the throttle issue seemed to resolve itself. So we approached the long straight and speed trap at 180+mph. Entering the trap, George rolled on the throttle and I saw 185mph on the GPS.
It's then that I smelled what I thought was burning rubber. "George, do you smell that?" My first thought was tire rubber, not good at 185+mph. At the same time the car did the hesitate/shudder we experienced earlier and George saw the oil pressure guage drop quickly. "Somethings wrong, I guess that's it for us" he said. " I think I can make it to the checkpoint." The next main check point with the rescue squad and helicopter was coming up on the left as George braked us down. He had put the car in Neutral as soon as he saw the oil pressure guage drop, so we were coasting in from there. We were still carrying some serious speed approaching the checkpoint, and I thought there's no way we can stop in time. "I can't stop here, do you think we can make it to the next one?" George asked. I looked over at the instuments, and noticed the RPM's were at zero. "Did you shut it down George?' He replied that the engine died as soon as he shifted into Neutral. I looked ahead at the next checkpoint with a large motorhome parked there, about a mile away. That was the official speed trap with the radar and timing lights. There was nowhere to pull over and get off the highway, so I hoped Roger Greene in his GT3 wasn't going to come up on us at 170mph. This was not a good place to stop, every car would come thru here as fast as they were allowed. I told George "We better make it" as we coasted along.
Well, sure enough, George coasted us into the turn out and stopped next to the motorhome. Now smoke was coming out of the hood vents, so I unclipped and climbed out. I looked under the car first and George asked "What do you see?" "Nothing but oil" I said. George had the pocket knife, so I had to wait for him to exit and cut open the hood tape. We popped the hood, and were presented with an engine covered in oil. Our race was obviously over, nothing to do but get out the cameras, take pictures of everybody, and fry in the desert sun. We waited about another 20 minutes and checked the dipstick....milkshake...and not the good kind. The coolant overflow tank was empty as well. Engine was done.
All this may sound exciting now, but looking back it was actually very calm and in reality a non-event. Which is exactly the way we want it. Hats off to George for dealing calmly with a potentially catastrophic problem.
Best decision of the day?.....shifting into Neutral at 180+mph and coasting it out as soon as he saw the oil pressure drop. So that's my perspective. It was a blast navigating at those speeds, definitely much more challenging than the lower speed classes I normally run. If the car is repaired in time for the next events this summer, I'm looking forward to another chance at 200mph...
Holy crap that was a long winded story...I gotta get some work done.
Rich
06-11-2007, 03:18 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Richard S
Best decision of the day?.....shifting into Neutral at 180+mph and coasting it out as soon as he saw the oil pressure drop.
Glad your all ok.............hopefully the engine is fixed in short order.
06-11-2007, 03:48 PM
#23
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Glad you brought it down safely. Good job George. I hope that you escape with just a head gasket issue, etc. Who won the team challenge, and how did our 928's do?
I hope that you escape with just a head gasket issue, etc. Who won the team challenge, and how did our 928's do?
06-11-2007, 03:59 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
great write up.
sounds like cracked block. why else would the coolant overflow be empty and the oil being the milkshake? plus, wouldnt you be billowing out white steam before the end? if the water jacket cracked, the 15psi would push the water in the oil, it would foam up and you would loose oil pressure.
I hope thats not the problem but its my first guess.
Really to hear of the failure. sounds like you guys were having a blast. good job, especiallly Jorg, for keeping cool and shutting down. all you need is a major engine blow at 189mph!!!!!!!!!
edit: i forgot about the oil mess. Hmmm. breather valve broke open, spraying oil everywhere at 6000rpm, loss of oil causes over temp, water vaporizes out the expansino tank and in the end , no damage?? wouldnt that be nice.
did you notice any temp issues before shut down?? if not, i wonder where the oil mess came from?
thought #3. oil cooler and water cooler have leak and combine? that would explain the mess and then the water leaked into the oil cooler
MK
sounds like cracked block. why else would the coolant overflow be empty and the oil being the milkshake? plus, wouldnt you be billowing out white steam before the end? if the water jacket cracked, the 15psi would push the water in the oil, it would foam up and you would loose oil pressure.
I hope thats not the problem but its my first guess.
Really to hear of the failure. sounds like you guys were having a blast. good job, especiallly Jorg, for keeping cool and shutting down. all you need is a major engine blow at 189mph!!!!!!!!!
edit: i forgot about the oil mess. Hmmm. breather valve broke open, spraying oil everywhere at 6000rpm, loss of oil causes over temp, water vaporizes out the expansino tank and in the end , no damage?? wouldnt that be nice.
did you notice any temp issues before shut down?? if not, i wonder where the oil mess came from?
thought #3. oil cooler and water cooler have leak and combine? that would explain the mess and then the water leaked into the oil cooler
MK
06-11-2007, 05:16 PM
#25
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Mark, that's some evil speculating. There were lots of things going on and we found a several telling anomalies later when we tested the car. Let's just see. I feel real bad for George. I've spent a lot of time with him working on his car, and this really hurts me, but not nearly as much as it hurts George. Anyway, since the oil cooler on 90+ cars is external to the radiator, thought #3 is not relevant.
06-11-2007, 05:25 PM
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Nice write up Rich, it was good having you along. You've got a lot of knowledge about
the 928 and it helped out. It was also good having Bill B. and Paul M out there. Together
they helped me get the car back to Wendover and formulate the plans for getting the
car back on the road. Now I just have to wait for Dave to give me the update on the
engine.
I've been busy at work, but here is the video of the second leg.
http://sis125.norcal928.org/video/2007-b100-leg2.wmv
It's a 40 mb wmv file, almost 7 minutes long. Still pretty rough, but should
give you more info on the run.
Also, here are a few photos of the car from the event:
1 The car on the starting grid
2 Rich and I next to the car
3 On the road, during the first leg (photo taken by my son Josh)
4 NDOT crew check out the Poorsh
5 The road we had just come down
6 Photo of Bill's 928 approaching the speed trap
7 Bill's car exiting the speed trap
The car handled great and never over heated. The water temp stayed a little over
170 degrees, even after the engine stopped. Boost reached a little over 6 psi,
the oil pressure stayed at almost 5 bars up until the end. The AFR gauge showed
a little rich of center.
the 928 and it helped out. It was also good having Bill B. and Paul M out there. Together
they helped me get the car back to Wendover and formulate the plans for getting the
car back on the road. Now I just have to wait for Dave to give me the update on the
engine.
I've been busy at work, but here is the video of the second leg.
http://sis125.norcal928.org/video/2007-b100-leg2.wmv
It's a 40 mb wmv file, almost 7 minutes long. Still pretty rough, but should
give you more info on the run.
Also, here are a few photos of the car from the event:
1 The car on the starting grid
2 Rich and I next to the car
3 On the road, during the first leg (photo taken by my son Josh)
4 NDOT crew check out the Poorsh
5 The road we had just come down
6 Photo of Bill's 928 approaching the speed trap
7 Bill's car exiting the speed trap
The car handled great and never over heated. The water temp stayed a little over
170 degrees, even after the engine stopped. Boost reached a little over 6 psi,
the oil pressure stayed at almost 5 bars up until the end. The AFR gauge showed
a little rich of center.
Last edited by jorj7; 09-07-2007 at 01:43 AM. Reason: relink photos
06-11-2007, 05:30 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Tahoe Shark
Glad you brought it down safely. Good job George. I hope that you escape with just a head gasket issue, etc. Who won the team challenge, and how did our 928's do?
I hope that you escape with just a head gasket issue, etc. Who won the team challenge, and how did our 928's do?
06-11-2007, 05:36 PM
#28
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Hey, thanks for including the pics of my car too, George. I can make out what looks like 160 or 161 on the trap radar. I had seen 168 on my speedo coming into the trap and let up so I would not break the 168 tech and get DQ'd. I'm very happy with 161, especially considering I did not have the supercharger on the car this time. And, folks, that is what stock ride height looks like.
Last edited by Bill Ball; 06-11-2007 at 10:12 PM.
06-11-2007, 05:58 PM
#29
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Bill-
I may have missed it somewhere in this or another thread, but does the absence of comments about shocks mean that you got the shocks/suspension issues resolved?
168 at stock ride height, unsupercharged? Man I gotta A) learn how to drive, and B) enter the rookie class some time......
I may have missed it somewhere in this or another thread, but does the absence of comments about shocks mean that you got the shocks/suspension issues resolved?
168 at stock ride height, unsupercharged? Man I gotta A) learn how to drive, and B) enter the rookie class some time......
06-11-2007, 06:01 PM
#30
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that's some big bag of suck for you guys.
glad you made it back.
promise i wont make fun of you at the next Taco Tuesday (you know, considering that a 928 already missed out for "technical difficulties"
) 