heinrich

I don't think Louie Ott has to ask these men, because he was instrumental in getting their cars running, and was part of the whole thing and saw all the work done and products installed. Louie is the man who fixed those messes.

Louie928

That's really close to correct. Dennis had two different sets of cams from Phil. The first set was the plasma coated type. His engine would hardly run with those and he brought it here. The shop that did the work had them very much out of time. I think they just put them in without actually timing them. Timing the cams didn't help much as there was something else wrong that gave him a huge power drop of 100+ hp at 5000 rpm with partial recovery at 6000 rpm. Dennis replaced everything he could think of with no help. I believe it was about this time he went from the 5L bottom end to the 6.5 stroker, but the power hole persisted. It was Marc Thomas' opinion that something with the cam grind working with the intake system resonance was causing the power drop. Marc was right. Dennis got another cam set from Phil which used GTS cams as the core and were simply re-ground. No plasma coating. I put those in and the engine ran quite well after some tuning with a SMT-6 piggyback ECU. The cam specs appeared to be very close to the Devek B1 for lift & duration. Don't know about the actual profile. The plasma coated cams I removed were showing wear after only a few hundred miles.

atb

Dennis' car is for sale in Pano.

Fastest928

Ahhhh, best plan to be playing catch up in a few weeks when "pure evil", another Tom and Marc creation, rumbles...target 600 +rwhp NA



Keep your fingers crossed!

Marc

Bill Ball

I think I'll drop by the laboratory next week.

GregBBRD

OK. You guys win. Here's the problem I've had with Scat cranks:

I've always used Moldex cranks and Carrillo rods without ever having a single issue with them. (Mark Anderson's Moldex crank is over 10 years old and has never had an issue.) I use this stuff in my own engines. Great stuff, no issues. Keep oil in the motor and the stuff will still be around when the cockroaches rule the earth.

One of my customers walked in one day with a Scat crank and a set of Oliver connecting rods and asked me to build an engine out of this stuff. Having never used these pieces, I said yes and proceeded. The crank was magnafluxed, checked for size and taper, and balanced. The rods were checked for size and magnafluxed. I assembled the engine with "H" series Clevite rod bearings (Chevy size) and had my desired oil clearance. The engine ran for about 30 hours on the track when the customer had a "fuel issue" and a misfire that eventually was traced to some defective wiring in the car. What we did not know, (but found out very soon) is that the head gaskets had been hammered very badly and the fire rings had been compromised. The gaskets failed immediately after the fuel and ignition problems had been solved, so the engine was removed and disassembled down to the block. We decided to look at the bottom end and see how things were doing, as long as it was out of the car and fairly easy to do. Removal and inspection of the rod bearings was very pleasing, as the rod bearings looked absolutely perfect. Closer inspection, however, showed that the crankshaft had significant wear on the journals. We completely disassembled the engine and started measuring. The crank was worn several thousandths. The rods were .001-.003 out of round. And yet, the bearings measured and looked virtually new. The "H' series bearings are very hard and have a fairly high degree of eccentricity, due to their intended use in race engines, but this was absolutely amazing! Bearings that were actually so perfect that they could have been re-used, but a crank that was worn so far it needed to be turned .010 undersize! Our initial thought was that perhaps the crank had missed being nitrated, but there is a simple test for that and it passed! We took the crank to the crank grinder and he tested it and said it was very soft. Soft 4340??? How can that be. I don't want to go any farther with this part of the story...it is too long and doesn't matter.

Enough of that story. New story. Second Scat crankshaft. Took it, with components, to machine shop along with a Moldex crankshaft, with components, to both be balanced. Bear in mind that both cranks are supposed to be made from 4340. Both cranks needed a bit of Mallory to balance them. Machinist calls me and tells me that he needs me to stop by...he wants to show me something. Turns out that what he wants to show me is that the Scat crank drills like a stinking piece of aluminum and the Moldex drills like it is made from diamonds. The difference was stinking unbelieveable! I think the dullest drill on earth could have drilled a hole in the Scat crank. Same material? Not even close. Perhaps Moldex lies and actually uses a better material, I have no idea, but I do know this: There is no chance that these two cranks were made of the same material!

I'm over the Scat thing. I won't use one to build an engine for a customer ever again. I had someone contact me from the Rennlist to give them a price on assembly of their stroker engine that had a Scat crank and I declined to assemble the engine. Reputations are hard to come by. I can't afford to have an engine fail from faulty material. No one will say "heh, it was a bad crank." They will just say "Greg built his engine." No way, no how, is this ever going to happen.

IMHO, if you have a Scat crank and you are running the "H" series Clevite bearings on it, you could be in deep trouble. However, I've been told that the "blanks" vary greatly in quality. Perhaps I have been unlucky and got two "soft" ones. I have no intention of ever finding out.

greg brown

slate blue

Greg what about having all the journals hard chromed?
From my stand point glad I went with Moldex.
Glad I went 8 cw.
Not sure about my Clevite 77 tri metal bearings???
Glad I'm only shooting for 500 at the wheels
and lastly fired up my new motor and not one bit of visable blowby, do you hear that mister kibort? Ran it for 5 minutes and will comence the running in (the fun bit, driving, next week) Also I hope to post some new head flow figures next week. Sorry to hijack.

Greg

heinrich

Thanks for sharing Greg

BC

It would be good to know the years these cranks appeared.

Fastest928

Gregg - Were they DEVEK cranks?

You should pass this info on to Tom Lieb at SCAT, he needs to know about it. If they were our cranks, I need to know about it and I will let Tom know. Tom has no interest in making junk...SCAT is very good "you get what you pay for" company.

The only DEVEK Scat crank that has ever "failed" lasted almost a full lap without oil in Don H engine and could have been reused except it had a deep, unrepairable crack. It was still extremely hard and in fact, the ones that we have balanced cost considerbly more due to drilling!

Good to know you also check the hardness prior to build too....just in case.

Cheers

mark kibort

What about this blow by thing??? Call me slow, but i dont get it.
Can you refresh my memory?

MK

slate blue

By Mark Kibort Just playing with ya Mark, the engine started first pop and has no blowby, its our little competition for the 5.0 Euro Title, or the 5.0 Euro litre World Championship.

Is yours running yet? We will run in my engine soon and have a dyno sheet for you all by the end of March no later and I will have the headflow figures too tommorow. I will start a new thread for those so as no to hijack the thread like I have here.


Cheers Greg

adrian928se

Jim, Greg, Anybody - is this Stroker crank still for sale? If so please can someone email me some pics.

Thanks
Adrian

heinrich

I still have a GTS crank available

Jim bailey - 928 International

Adrian , photos sent directly to you.