Engine failure
08-21-2006, 03:27 PM
#17
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i understand, but on my car 8 quarts doesnt even hit the lower level line. (and this was true on my 5 liter euro)
generally, its 9 quarts and it goes to the middle of the range. so, before a race, I make sure im at the max fill line. maybe a shade over.
One time, i was a little over filled and i puked oil (or should i say, burned oil as it was blue smoking) for the main straight of thunderhill on WOT. after that, it was fine. I thought i had lost the engine, but then it stopped smoking entirely. (i think it actually stopped a few straights later on that lap) really had me worried though!
Mk
generally, its 9 quarts and it goes to the middle of the range. so, before a race, I make sure im at the max fill line. maybe a shade over.
One time, i was a little over filled and i puked oil (or should i say, burned oil as it was blue smoking) for the main straight of thunderhill on WOT. after that, it was fine. I thought i had lost the engine, but then it stopped smoking entirely. (i think it actually stopped a few straights later on that lap) really had me worried though!
Mk
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
Overfilling will lead to more foam because the raised oil level will hit the crank more often. From what I've read of 16V (especially Euro) engines run hard, they will puke any extra oil out rather quickly. The first time I changed my oil, I put 8.5 quarts in and the level dropped pretty quickly. The second time I filled to the lower oil level and didn't notice any loss. That was a little under 8 quarts. Since then I've only put 8 quarts in and have not noticed any oil level drop after the first run even with seepage covering the entire bottom of the car.
BTW, 8 quarts on my car is 1/8-1/4" above minimum on the dipstick.
BTW, 8 quarts on my car is 1/8-1/4" above minimum on the dipstick.
08-21-2006, 03:31 PM
#18
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i never ever see less than over 4.5 bar at any turn at any rpm. plus, keep in mind,my car is a race car and is on huge sticky tires. the best two turns i have on record are turn 2 at thunderhill. 80mph contstant radius turn, and turn 7? at Road america. 100mph constant radius turn. both turns are in 3rd gear and both are between 5000rpm and 5700rpm by the time you reach the exit. both turns are shown clearly on the video as having near 5 bar pressure. (its not over 5 bar like normal straight away activity, its wavering just below the 5 bar mark).
could it be you have been running the famed mobil 1? bet you are!!
MK
could it be you have been running the famed mobil 1? bet you are!!
MK
Originally Posted by Cheburator
I just want to throw in some more confusion on this thread here... On my two recent outings at the Nurburgring the car showed drops in oil pressure from 5+bar at 4500rpm to 3bar during BOTH left and right turns... Moreover, the turns were all at the end of flat sections going into uphil bits of the track. Oil pressure drops were observed only when de-celeration for the bend turned into acceleration as I was hitting the apex. That tells me that the oil is sloshing about the pan and uncovering the oil pick up. Thus, a I-J crank scraper, windage tray and a sump baffle cannot be a bad thing at all.
BTW, the engine is a completely standard and has been recently rebuild and blue printed - 300RWBHP. I run the car on racing suspension, but street rubber as a precaution.
I am about to make a dry sump pan based on a design which has been used in the UK for a season by a 928GTS with over 40 hours of racing on it. Would any of you guys be interested if I install it on my GT and it proves to eliminate oil aeration and oil ejection? The cost will be around $750 + your old pan for the new one... Scavenge pump, lines and oil tank are extra...
Alex
BTW, the engine is a completely standard and has been recently rebuild and blue printed - 300RWBHP. I run the car on racing suspension, but street rubber as a precaution.
I am about to make a dry sump pan based on a design which has been used in the UK for a season by a 928GTS with over 40 hours of racing on it. Would any of you guys be interested if I install it on my GT and it proves to eliminate oil aeration and oil ejection? The cost will be around $750 + your old pan for the new one... Scavenge pump, lines and oil tank are extra...
Alex
08-21-2006, 03:35 PM
#19
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Glen, does your car have an Accusump? Just curious since I did not see any chatter about using one in this thread.
What kind of oil cooler setup?
What kind of oil cooler setup?
08-21-2006, 04:20 PM
#20
We have an engine that was used in this car only, never developed for racing, and was not used after. We have an anomoly in MK, and the rest of the racers that have no blown up motors are running dry sump, IIRC. I am not sure on Joe Fan.
Don Hanson, David Lloyd, GlenL, Ott, and countless others privately have blown these big hunnks of aluminum to smitherins on numerous occasions.
I don't have a solution, but I am very dissapointed. Very.
Don Hanson, David Lloyd, GlenL, Ott, and countless others privately have blown these big hunnks of aluminum to smitherins on numerous occasions.
I don't have a solution, but I am very dissapointed. Very.
08-21-2006, 04:30 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by BrendanC
We have an engine that was used in this car only, never developed for racing, and was not used after. We have an anomoly in MK, and the rest of the racers that have no blown up motors are running dry sump, IIRC. I am not sure on Joe Fan.
Jim Page has over 5 track years on his original S4 motor with no bearing issues running an accusump. He took the bearings out when he removed the original engine, all rod bearings looked new – always using Mobil 1.
My 79 has been a dedicated track car since the late 80's. 65,000 miles with the original rod bearings - accusump also on this car. It's been buried in the kitty litter plenty of times (before I owned it), engine is fine.
All three of these cars are regulars at Black Hawk, Road America, Gingerman, and a few events at BIR + plus the occasional autocross.
I’m not trying to say this is the guaranteed answer – just looking for more discussion about accusumps or any other form of pressure accumulator.
08-21-2006, 04:32 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
Glen, does your car have an Accusump? Just curious since I did not see any chatter about using one in this thread.
What kind of oil cooler setup?
What kind of oil cooler setup?
Not running high RPMs (>5k) in corners.
While all versions of 928s seem to have oil foaming or ejection, there are variations between engine models. Reports are that it's the 16V cars that have it the worst.
I'm thinking that having the vents on the heads may be a factor. It could be that the foam is more likely to fly out the block-top vent (Pre-S4 block) then go up the drains.
Thanks for the support, guys!
08-21-2006, 04:34 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by BrendanC
I am not sure on Joe Fan.
.
.
08-21-2006, 04:42 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by mark anderson
Joe is using an accusump and has not had a failure since installing it over 5 years ago.
I'm working on redoing the plumbing on my track car - attaching the accusump to an oil filter adaptor plate (same one Murphy uses on his SC kits). Quick & simple.
08-21-2006, 04:44 PM
#26
Race Car
Originally Posted by mark anderson
Joe is using an accusump and has not had a failure since installing it over 5 years ago.
Wasn't Ronn was running an Accusump when he spun his 2/6? I do know for sure he drilled the crank afterwards when he rebuilt it.
08-21-2006, 04:48 PM
#27
Originally Posted by heinrich
Brendan there really is no surprise here, and nothing new. If you wind a big-bore V8 to 6300RPM (and I often do) you will break it.
I know the Vette has has some issues, but that is a 100mm bore, 100mm stroke (close), and 7.0L - spinning happily to...7k or 7500, I can't remember.
The engine I am building for the 78 will have a 7k redline. Its fun, and I want it to stat together at that rpm. I guess I will have to use my S2000 as the track car though.
08-21-2006, 04:49 PM
#28
Originally Posted by mark anderson
Joe is using an accusump and has not had a failure since installing it over 5 years ago.
08-21-2006, 04:50 PM
#29
There was a failure with Accusump, but it was spoken about as if there were other issues with the accusump being dirty of not on. Again, memory.
08-21-2006, 04:53 PM
#30
Other forums simply have "concensus" issues, that all new readers see, and simply understand before they try anything stupid. Us? Change you damn timning belt. Change your ball joints. Don't forget about your shifter linkage. Campion takes apart 928s and then complains too much - you know, stuff like that.
Are we at the point where we add: If you really do want to race your 928 with stickie tires, you need to drysump it. Add 2k to your cost of racing.
Are we at the point where we add: If you really do want to race your 928 with stickie tires, you need to drysump it. Add 2k to your cost of racing.