Bill Ball

Dave, glad we had all your help today. It is a tiring job on your back under low jackstands.

I had to run off and do an errand soon after you left, and, frankly, I was tired. So, we got everything except the heatshields and exhaust back on. Might get some time tomorrow afternoon if the Easter plans are not too involved.

Another savings of this procedure is no draining of the trans and removal of lines and hoses. The shifter cable end was popped off and its bracket unbolted from the trans to allow for rear sliding of the trans, but everything else stayed intact.

As this was a new adventure, we did have a few mishaps...like forgetting to put the upper rear TT bolts back in , but we were able to get them in w/o removing the bellhousing or TT.

Having a chance to do this on Matt's car will make this far easier when it comes time for me to do my TT.

So, we should have the final pieces back on soon, maybe tomorrow. We've established you can do the TT & TC bearings w/o removing the rear suspension and tranny. I was certain we could do it when I heard about all the cut up bellhousings JimB sees. Why would anyone cut the rear crossmember on the bellhousing (that traps the TT from coming down) unless they were taking out the TT? Of course, that is no proof they succeeded. I knew the bellhousing did not need to be cut, although removing the bellhousing probably added over 2 hours to the job. I may cut the crossmember next time.

Also, we did show the very long older model TT shaft will JUST BARELY clear the flywheel rim, IF you jack the front of the motor, which tilts the flywheel forward at the bottom rim. Once it clears the rim, the motor can go back to normal position. No need to unbolt the flywheel.

We have a lot to document about this procedure should others want to try it.

Greg was right about the circlip, although I can see if we had had a little longer pair of bits, we would have gotten it. Later for that.

edco

Big thanks to Bill, Dave, Steve & Greg B for all you’re help, it was a HUGE job! No way I could have done this alone.

RngTrtl

I have been keeping up with this project of y'alls religiously over the past week. Many congrats to you guys for a job well done. I am gonna do this in may, thanks for all the info, beers on me if I get to see ya'll.

StevenB

This was a very interesting project to witness/help out with. It will be significantly easier the next time . As Dave said, a prodigious amount of patience is helpful as well as several BMF pry bars and extensions.
After all this effort, it will be good to see Matt's car on the road again.

SharkSkin

Yeah, one of those dumb questions... "Guys, how are we going to get this rear TT bolt back in?"

I really enjoyed helping and hanging out with you guys.

Bill Ball

Oh, one other requirement to do this job the way we did it... somebody with small hands and forearms. Fortunately I fit that description.

I actually enjoyed this job too, as grueling as it was at times. I always get a kick out off pulling a part off in a unique way and shouting, "They said it couldn't be done!" We got to say that several times on this job.

Dave, your novel thinking and my persistence really complimented each other. The results would have been far different without you there. This is a great job for a small group. Doing it alone, with no prior experience, would be borderline torture.

GregBBRD

Great that you guys got it back together.....I wondered how tough it was going to be to clear the flywheel with the longer torque tube shaft (non broken), but it is nice that it is possible. I think that probably, for me (with lifts, hydraulic transmission removal platforms that roll, and a bunch of other special tools), it might still be easier to do this job in the conventional way. However, removing the transmission in one's garage with the car on jackstands can't be a barrel of laughs.

Everyone wonders why Porsche left out the pieces to keep the flexplate from working forward on the later model cars. Once you've had to deal with that circlip, there is little doubt why they removed these pieces from the vehicle. Can you imagine a mechanic at a dealership, working flat rate, trying to install that circlp? Not! Of course, a super custom set of circlip pliers that were long and bent and went through the round holes in the flywheel would make this job fairly easy.

Obviously, this whole thing would be much easier with a custom driveshaft to flexplate coupler like Constantine (sp?) was working on. Hope he gets these things built and brought to market.

Seems like most of the time that we do this job in the shop, the engine is out and it is super easy to measure the shims needed and install the circlip before the engine gets installed. Removing the engine is still harder than removing the transmission. However, if someone also needs motor mounts, pan gasket, and other things done in the engine area, getting the engine out starts to look attractive.

Great gob!


greg brown

Bill Ball

Exactly. We did not have the car high enough the get things down. With experience, this alternative procedure may still be a timesaver. With the right long wrenches the bellhousing could be off quickly, but it's rather a bitch. Cutting the bellhousing crosspiece (naughty for any reputable shop) and leaving the bellhousing on would make this job pretty darn easy, as all you need to do is slide the tranny back an inch and do just a bit ot motor tilting with a jack to get the shaft tip to clear the flywheel . If you have any reason the service the tranny, even just fluid, you might as well drop the rear.Again, exactly. I'm surprised there isn't a Porsche tool for this. You've managed to get the clip on and we will once we get the right circlip pliers.I'm on the list to get one of these.So, with the whole drive train out you bolt the TT to the motor? How do you get to the shims? Bolted up, it doesn't seem the access would be any better, say, from above though the opening in the bellhousing. Is that it?

GregBBRD

Bill:

Yes, cutting the bellhousing apparently makes this job easier. I could never do that to any car. I've seen several cars that have had this "modification" made and it just makes me ill. Especially when you get to see the invoices for the job and the shop charged "full boat" labor for the job and then cut the bell housing to save hours and hours of labor. Hacks!

When we pull the engine, we leave the torque tube and transmission in the car. We then can easily change the torque tube and measure what shims are required, install the circlip, etc. Really easy to do when you can stand in the engine compartment and measure and install the circlip!

Who's going to make the "Rennlist" loaner set of circlip pliers?

greg brown

Bill Ball

Aha! We can do that too. We can install the clip and test shim amount much easier BEFORE we slide the tranny and TT forward. Do that, then bolt the TT to the bellhouing, pulling things togther, measure. If we need to change the shim amount, we would loosen the bolts and slide the tranny back again. Even though it's only about an inch, it would make access much easier and the process of removing the four bolts and sliding the tranny and TT back and forth is quick and easy. Jesus, I feel like an idiot now. We could have installed the shims and circlip before we even swung the TT front end back up. What a no-brainer.

GregBBRD

Yes, that would help a bunch. Might want to hold up on the exhaust and shield installation until you do that.

greg brown

Bill Ball

Yup.

GregBBRD

You might want to consider loosening/removing the clamps that hold the shift and kickdown cable on the torque tube before you pull it back.....they tend to not be very "streatchy". The kickdown cable may move with the whole assembly, but it will not be happy unless you detach it from the throttle bellcrank assembly on the intake manifold. You might also be able to disconnect the shift cable from the transmission shift lever in the rear and put the shifter in the middle.....but it may not be enough. I'd remove the clamps and disconnect the cables, just to make sure.......they are not fun to replace if they get damaged.

BTW---How'd you guy like that 6mm bolt (10mm head) that holds the kickdown cable housing onto the rear bell housing? Pretty handy to get to in order to start the threads........thank God for 1/4" drive swivel sockets!

gb

Bill Ball

We removed the large hose clamps that hold these cables to the top of the TT when we moved it. We left them loose on resinstallation until things get finalized. No problem. BTW, the shifter cable is not held by these clamps. It runs in the foam above the TT. The clamps hold the kickdown and vacuum. So, I think you can leave everything clamped as you slide the TT and tranny back and forth as long as the kickdown and vacuum are free at the front.

That kickdown bracket is one of the things that stops most people from getting the bellhousing down. We popped the kickdown cable end off and unclipped the cable sheath from the throttle quadrant, totally freeing the front end of the cable. We left the bellhousing bracket alone and lowered the bellhousing. Once you solve the geometry problem of getting the bellhousing past the flywheel and dropped down, the kickdown bracket is right in front of you and easy to deal with.

The key is sliding the tranny back as far as it will go (get parking brake cables out of the way) and a little jacking of the motor. When you detach the TT from motor, the motor tilts up in the back and closes up the space between the bellhousing and the firewall. Jacking the front of the motor fixes this for both removal and re-installation of the bellhousing. Still some jostling to do, but the bellhousing is completely removable intact.

Oh, and we found the TT shaft slid easily with no huffing back into the receiver on the TC cover. Just took good alignment and a few taps with a deadblow at the other end, not hard enough to upset anything, along with support and pushing at the TC end. That is a 2 to 3-man part of the job.

SharkSkin

Bill, I don't think moving the TT back would do us any good WRT getting the circlip on. Remember, the space constraints were imposed by the coupler hitting the bellhousing. Moving the TT back wouldn't give us any more room between the flexplate and the flywheel to get at the front of the shaft.

To make any difference we'd have to loosen the bellhousing, and I know you haven't forgotten what a joy that is...

Oh, and thanks for the compliments. Always a pleasure wrenching on sharks with you.