From Randy: Yesterday, I banned Lagavulin (Paul) from Rennlist
07-23-2005, 01:54 PM
#106
USMarine
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Originally Posted by Z
You say that like you think it would matter a whole lot to Tim whether he was banned or not. Tim is the only one that knows, but if I had to guess, I'd say that he wouldn't exactly loose too much sleep over it. It would probably just give him more time to spend with his wife and three kids.
Oh yeah, feel free to ban me too if anybody gets a thrill out of it. While some may enjoy misinformation, ego pumping, and what basically amount to infomercials on here, I'm not a teacher correcting homework, I'm not a psychologist dealing with other's personality problems, and I've changed the channel.
Oh yeah, feel free to ban me too if anybody gets a thrill out of it. While some may enjoy misinformation, ego pumping, and what basically amount to infomercials on here, I'm not a teacher correcting homework, I'm not a psychologist dealing with other's personality problems, and I've changed the channel.
I know there are guys that lurk here and read, I sometimes take a hiatus from the boards- time and time again and lurk the other boards (996,993, 996Turbo, and 928 forum when I drove the other cars). It does not change from one forum to another. It does not always mean that we or those of us that lurk and read are not interested in participating we simply obtain the information we need and check the facts ourselves and determine what is true and what has a big old stamp of BULLtihS stamped all over it. I know personally that very credible individuals here in the PacNW like Louis Ott, Don Hanson, Tom Middleton and few others are reading these boards and laughing out loud becuase they too are veterans that have been here for many years and have seen the same nonsense and know it has not changed. It has not changned and in my IMHO will likely NEVER change. There will always be disagreements here, get used to it and quit yer whining. It is up to you to check out the facts and determine what is useful or or not. If you can't tolerate a topic or disagreement "DON'T FRIGGIN READ IT THEN...MOVE THE HELL ON!"
I like a statement that Randy made in the Off Topic forum and I think it applies to all of Rennlist-
"you can always count on somebody calling your bluff and put you all-in"
This is a tough crowd here on these list, and some really intelligent individuals are very common. When you take all of that intellectual prowess and put it in a room like this forum there are going to be arguments and flamers, get used to it if you plan on reading and participating in many of these topics. If you can't get used to some flaming time and time again then just use the list for what many find it most useful- "post a question regarding your Porsche whether it be for maintenance, repair, general knowledge; get your answer; then close topic. But please what ever you do please spare me posts about how much this forum has changed...for cry'n out loud.
07-23-2005, 02:01 PM
#107
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Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Red UFO
As for what Z said. Ya, alot of people don't post here, big deal. But I think the quality of information posted here is pretty damn good. Show me any board with rapid response to problems on a shark? If people want to thumb their nose at rennlist because they think they are too damn good for it, then we didn't want them as members anyway.
07-23-2005, 02:12 PM
#108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy V
Tim - think of it this way: Say you are running for political office. One of your backers, who you are close to, begins a spirited negative publicity campaign against your opponent. If you do nothing to squelch those tactics, you are in effect supporting them. Spin it any way you like - that's the way I see it.
Originally Posted by Randy V
Tim - think of it this way: Say you are running for political office. One of your backers, who you are close to, begins a spirited negative publicity campaign against your opponent. If you do nothing to squelch those tactics, you are in effect supporting them. Spin it any way you like - that's the way I see it.
Originally quoted by Z:
I guess that's one way of seeing at it. I guess there's also a way to see someone who presents false statements as fact, tries to copywrite his posts, threatens to sue if anyone tries to make direct comparisons to his products or use statements he's made, who states that he won't provide technical support publicly, and only on the forum that he's created, moderates, and restricts. Don't bother telling me how you see someone like that, since you've already made it clear that we have very differing opinions on some things. It's interesting that Tim got dragged into this by, of all people, the moderator. I guess there's a way of seeing that too.
I guess that's one way of seeing at it. I guess there's also a way to see someone who presents false statements as fact, tries to copywrite his posts, threatens to sue if anyone tries to make direct comparisons to his products or use statements he's made, who states that he won't provide technical support publicly, and only on the forum that he's created, moderates, and restricts. Don't bother telling me how you see someone like that, since you've already made it clear that we have very differing opinions on some things. It's interesting that Tim got dragged into this by, of all people, the moderator. I guess there's a way of seeing that too.
Hold up, let me grab my coat and I'll go with you. I think I need to get away for awhile.
Before I go back to what I was doing before this all started, I will make one further comment.
To those who are running my supercharger systems, or those that are "in the know" never change what you might say here because you are worried about what I might think of it. I encourage you all to be honest and forthcoming when discussing these systems. If you have a problem and you think discussig it here will help you or help others, post it, I encourage you to do so. If you believe in something, state you case and do your best to follow it up with the facts. With respect to my product, there is nothing that should be kept secrect if you think it will help out the next guy. Besides, most of you guys are smarter than me anyway.
See ya.
Last edited by Tim Murphy; 07-23-2005 at 03:49 PM.
07-23-2005, 02:42 PM
#109
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Thaddeus is absolutely right about turning owners (and as important) potential owners off and them keeping their $$$ in their pocket, IMHO. And that doesn't just relate to supercharging $$$. Unfortunately for me, and at this point in time, I wouldn't know a supercharger from a refrigerator. But if I see this kind of p...ing match on the board you can bet my inclination to ask the naive or "dumb" question drops like a rock. Who wants to chance being on the receiving end of some of this stuff? That cannot be good for growing our community. There are a lot of people who need and want pretty basic information on the shark and growing that base is good for all of us.
I realize that for those into supercharging the technical debates may, in fact, be very helpful, but look where this tread has ended up. There are, I would bet, many times more people reading this thread to see the how the conflict plays out than ever would have read the technical stuff. Is that good for the community? Just my $.02
However, I am congenitally adverse to censorship. We need to agree to abide by the standardsw that WE want to live by. If we don't, the community dies.
I realize that for those into supercharging the technical debates may, in fact, be very helpful, but look where this tread has ended up. There are, I would bet, many times more people reading this thread to see the how the conflict plays out than ever would have read the technical stuff. Is that good for the community? Just my $.02
However, I am congenitally adverse to censorship. We need to agree to abide by the standardsw that WE want to live by. If we don't, the community dies.
07-23-2005, 02:53 PM
#110
Burning Brakes
Wahhh, wahhh....
Somebody hurt my feelings.
I'm taking my toys and going home.
Come on. Give me a break already.
Sticks and stones.....sticks and stones, people.
Words will never hurt me.
Get a grip.
Abiding,
D
07-23-2005, 02:55 PM
#111
USMarine
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by jcady
Who wants to chance being on the receiving end of some of this stuff? That cannot be good for growing our community. There are a lot of people who need and want pretty basic information on the shark and growing that base is good for all of us.
Is that good for the community? Just my $.02
However, I am congenitally adverse to censorship. We need to agree to abide by the standardsw that WE want to live by. If we don't, the community dies.
Is that good for the community? Just my $.02
However, I am congenitally adverse to censorship. We need to agree to abide by the standardsw that WE want to live by. If we don't, the community dies.
Then simply don't poke your nose into it "STAY OUT OF IT!" Hell don't even read it. The fact of the matter is- this gets more attention and posts from the people complaining about the health of the community than those actually arguing on the topic.It's like you folks running into a park to see two guys fighting with hand guns. Do you run up to see the action and wait for your chance to get shot? Becuase I am certain some of those bullets may not be intentionally aimed at you but yer gonna catch one of them. But your foolish desire to see the action is so intense that you've just gotta be there to witness it, read it, participate. If there is shooting going on in the park find another park to go to.
I have gotten a great deal form this list.
07-23-2005, 03:16 PM
#113
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The fact of the matter is- this gets more attention and posts from the people complaining about the health of the community than those actually arguing on the topic.
07-23-2005, 03:50 PM
#114
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So, nobody who doesn't want to risk getting shot shouldn't get to use the park because two guys want to shoot at each other? I think not.
The fact that the discussion has gone so far afield from the original technical issue tells you what most people are concerned about
The fact that the discussion has gone so far afield from the original technical issue tells you what most people are concerned about
07-23-2005, 04:49 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by DoubleNutz
Ya know, I have been here on Rennlist a LOOOONG time with guys like Thad (that hate my guts...I still love him though) before many of you .....
You drive a 928. That's a bond.
Or maybe you're trying to show us your sensitive side?
07-23-2005, 06:58 PM
#116
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I guess its my turn. I have been on around the lists since about 99'
I had orginally had a Munck/Delta P kit that I was piecing togther since about 2000 so I guess that
makes me one of the 1st piooneers or rather envestors in trying to get the kit running.
I have a few comments:
#1 After meeting Andy and giving up on the Munck system I decided to sell the Vortech set up.
#2 This was at almost the same time as Tim perfected the concept of the kit... which is commendable because it needed to be done.
#3 Because the timing of me trying to sell off my kit, to someone who had the time to deal with it, conicided with the timing of Tims kit. When I posted my offer I got jumped on by several people I won't mention (again not Tim M) and thrashed. How I could ask for 8k when Tim/Carls just completed and for sale kit was aprox 8k. At this time they had litteraly started to post their results. Now I am not sure why I got thrashed by the Murph camp since I was a just a simple guy trying to sell something but...
#4 I eventual parted the kit for about 6k recouping most of my money and Tom Falkenbug... remember that guy... bought the SQTrim at a good price to put in one of his many cars.
#5 At this time Andy's kit was very very basic. He had no intent to sell, none, zero. I was literaly the 1st person he showed and gave a ride to for the Jag/Eaton setup. I told him I want to do what he did and he mentioned something about twin screws, so I had him a new one about 5 days later and said here do something with this.
#6 At this time Andy starts releasing some of the info about what he is discovering and has the idea to make cheap kits, medium kits, and at some point kits for the GTS. Lots and lots and lots of people become very interested.
#7 At this time is when Andy starts to get flak... from you know who why? Dunno? Competition?
#8 I crash the 89 S-4 before I get my kit and put up a controversial post selling parts... (sorry about that one)...
#9 ....but hey guess who PM'ed me to buy my engine... someone running a TimM kit???
#10... but again hey that's their business, I kept this bit of secret to myself because you just might blow an engine or two trying to do this stuff...
#11 Andy buys my twin screw from me to further his idea and...
#12 develops 2 kits for sale beacause RENNLISTERS ASKED HIM TO, but they are not perfect at this time and need to be tweaked
#13 Now the crap flies and very few people know what to think between Andy and Lag
#14 I can tell you this, despite some things Andy might have said in reply to the clearly visious opinions and things from Lag (and others)... Andy was clearly on the defensive over a PROJECT that had yet to even be a real enterprise... again why$$$$$
#15 I have been in the Marines for the last 18 years, we have a saying about Marines when they are being investigated for misconduct... they "admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter accusations." Hmmm sounds like most of the stuff I saw from Lag... just my observation
#16 Now with all that being said and a little of my own dirt spilling out that I've kept to myself... I still support Andy, his kit is on my car, and I still support Tim... why???
#17 I almost bought Tims brand new kit right before I met Andy because he finished properly what others never quite got right and then I considered the kit again after I bought the GTS because Andy was worried about the 10:4 CR.
#18 In the end Andy spends a lot of money developing a proven kit... on my car... for the GTS... goes bankrupt and that is the end.....
#20 Lag clearly has no manners, doesn't always know what hes talking about and he and other clearly bash Andy for a profit motive.... however
#21 Because of all of this and I don't read Lags post... however I don't think he should nessessarly be banned...
#22 but like Mike, I don't spend much time here anymore because it clearly got bad and many of the older elders I remember have become mostly silent.............
I had orginally had a Munck/Delta P kit that I was piecing togther since about 2000 so I guess that
makes me one of the 1st piooneers or rather envestors in trying to get the kit running.
I have a few comments:
#1 After meeting Andy and giving up on the Munck system I decided to sell the Vortech set up.
#2 This was at almost the same time as Tim perfected the concept of the kit... which is commendable because it needed to be done.
#3 Because the timing of me trying to sell off my kit, to someone who had the time to deal with it, conicided with the timing of Tims kit. When I posted my offer I got jumped on by several people I won't mention (again not Tim M) and thrashed. How I could ask for 8k when Tim/Carls just completed and for sale kit was aprox 8k. At this time they had litteraly started to post their results. Now I am not sure why I got thrashed by the Murph camp since I was a just a simple guy trying to sell something but...
#4 I eventual parted the kit for about 6k recouping most of my money and Tom Falkenbug... remember that guy... bought the SQTrim at a good price to put in one of his many cars.
#5 At this time Andy's kit was very very basic. He had no intent to sell, none, zero. I was literaly the 1st person he showed and gave a ride to for the Jag/Eaton setup. I told him I want to do what he did and he mentioned something about twin screws, so I had him a new one about 5 days later and said here do something with this.
#6 At this time Andy starts releasing some of the info about what he is discovering and has the idea to make cheap kits, medium kits, and at some point kits for the GTS. Lots and lots and lots of people become very interested.
#7 At this time is when Andy starts to get flak... from you know who why? Dunno? Competition?
#8 I crash the 89 S-4 before I get my kit and put up a controversial post selling parts... (sorry about that one)...
#9 ....but hey guess who PM'ed me to buy my engine... someone running a TimM kit???
#10... but again hey that's their business, I kept this bit of secret to myself because you just might blow an engine or two trying to do this stuff...
#11 Andy buys my twin screw from me to further his idea and...
#12 develops 2 kits for sale beacause RENNLISTERS ASKED HIM TO, but they are not perfect at this time and need to be tweaked
#13 Now the crap flies and very few people know what to think between Andy and Lag
#14 I can tell you this, despite some things Andy might have said in reply to the clearly visious opinions and things from Lag (and others)... Andy was clearly on the defensive over a PROJECT that had yet to even be a real enterprise... again why$$$$$
#15 I have been in the Marines for the last 18 years, we have a saying about Marines when they are being investigated for misconduct... they "admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter accusations." Hmmm sounds like most of the stuff I saw from Lag... just my observation
#16 Now with all that being said and a little of my own dirt spilling out that I've kept to myself... I still support Andy, his kit is on my car, and I still support Tim... why???
#17 I almost bought Tims brand new kit right before I met Andy because he finished properly what others never quite got right and then I considered the kit again after I bought the GTS because Andy was worried about the 10:4 CR.
#18 In the end Andy spends a lot of money developing a proven kit... on my car... for the GTS... goes bankrupt and that is the end.....
#20 Lag clearly has no manners, doesn't always know what hes talking about and he and other clearly bash Andy for a profit motive.... however
#21 Because of all of this and I don't read Lags post... however I don't think he should nessessarly be banned...
#22 but like Mike, I don't spend much time here anymore because it clearly got bad and many of the older elders I remember have become mostly silent.............
07-23-2005, 08:40 PM
#117
USMarine
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by CMW
#22 but like Mike, I don't spend much time here anymore because it clearly got bad and many of the older elders I remember have become mostly silent.............
No problem, my biggest issue is that I stongly disagree that this forum has taken some kind of change for the worst. It has always been like this and there was alot of hell raised even when "we elders" were here on the blue and black log-in page, text only days.
07-23-2005, 08:45 PM
#118
USMarine
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Thaddeus
Dude, where'd you get that crazy idea? Your politics are, of course, incomprehensible to me, but I bear you no ill will whatsoever.
You drive a 928. That's a bond.
Or maybe you're trying to show us your sensitive side?
You drive a 928. That's a bond.
Or maybe you're trying to show us your sensitive side?
Incomprehensible politics????
Like I said- dude... I still love ya! We are bonded brothers indeed.
07-23-2005, 09:00 PM
#119
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Double Nutz,
I remeember the Black and White days but I was just a lurker then mostly and mostly still today.
I don't think I ever listed the Munck kit whole on e-bay but Tom Falkenberg did buy the SC and brackets... which I thought was going into the Tilo car but I think it eventualy went into another.
As for the (long) stories I've held mine for a long time because (it is long and) it should have never come to this. The two sides should have just agreed to disagree and maybe poke fun at each other on the occasion...
I remeember the Black and White days but I was just a lurker then mostly and mostly still today.
I don't think I ever listed the Munck kit whole on e-bay but Tom Falkenberg did buy the SC and brackets... which I thought was going into the Tilo car but I think it eventualy went into another.
As for the (long) stories I've held mine for a long time because (it is long and) it should have never come to this. The two sides should have just agreed to disagree and maybe poke fun at each other on the occasion...
