tomboyea123

Today I saw a vidieo of Mark Kilberts car run down a pack of very respectable modern day sports cars at lauguna saca (sorry about the spelling) and It made me think...If Mark can have the oldest car in the field(Which he did)and be so powerfull in his class(Which he Was),why is the rest of the 928 world ready to accept anything else than total domination of the sports car world?Think of what our cars offer,Big displacement v-8,transmission in the rear,battery in the rear,perfect weight distribution,A trasmission that can handle a LOT of HP!Stroker kits,Supercharger kits,Room for big wheels and tires,the list goes on!My gt made 517 rwhp with very little work ,only exhaust ,chips and a little supercharger with no intercooler.Someone here needs to step up to the plate and build A stroker motor with an intercooled ys intercoolled blower,and blow the sportscar world away! A car like this shoud be able to put down 750-1000 rwhp on the dyno and put it to the ground.Just look at what Toyota people have done for years with a 6 cylinder TOYOTA engine!If I had the resourses I would!It was not long ago that every magazine was saying the 928 was is good as it gets! Btw, I raced my friends gts viper tonight with headers and full exhaust and beat him by 3 car lenghths from 30 -130 mph.We need to think BIG!Just look at what Porsche is doing with a 3.6 in their gt 2! They have to deal with emissions ,crash protection, noise regulations,ect and they are doing it with a little 6 cyliner engine. I also have a blown intercooled ls1 ss camaro that is making 534 rwhp and 508 rwtq and it has broken everything on the car except the engine, It has broken the rear end 3 times,the transmission,3 cluches The windshild with slicks on it ect...my 928 has broken NOTHING!My point is that the 928 is a wonderfull, well built machine and even we dont know how great it is.And we are one of the largest enthusist groups in the world.I dont mean any flames to the people who have put a lot of time into there 928s or the rest of the Poirsche world but we have only scratched the surface of what we have.

hacker-pschorr

Welcome to Wisconsin:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/166901-i-would-like-to-share-my-supercharged-928-project-car.html


Randy, if you read this - Jim is still not showing up as a member.

Warren928

Tomboyea,

Getting that kind of horsepower is not the only challenge. I think we could easily achieve that with alittle upper cylender reinforcement and the right components. But we also need upgrade sources that can produce parts to handle 50% better than the OEM setup in:

Transmissions
Torque tubes
Axle halfshafts
Differential
Engine and tranny mouunts
Am I missing anything else?
I am not even going to get into suspension, tires and brakes right now.

I dont know if using the AMG transmission upgrade for autos will give you reliability to 1000 hp or not. Maybe someone knows the answer to that, please chime in. Any other ideas for a custom tranny?

I think we had a source for new differential gears (and various ratios to go with it) besides the OEM setup, but not sure how much extra HP it could handle. They were going to be made in small lots.

On the axle shafts, not sure who builds upgraded ones. Somebody please surf the net and try to get some pricing from a custom hot rod shop / driveshaft shop. That might be our best bet.

NickT

I have to agree, stock 316hp for a motor of this nature really is nothing at all, esp when you look at small block brute force 16 valve chebby engines that can out power ours by a huge amount with virtually nothing fancy on it all all..

Heck, many family sedans have more HP that we do now.. Had to listen to my coworker yesterday going on out his Dodge something-or-another station wagon that made 340hp.. I was embarrased when he ask how much mine made... err ummmm 316 stock...

Don't get me wrong... I love my 928 and you'll have to pry the steering wheel out of my dead hands, but a little more power would be nice..

cobalt

Keep in mind that the dodges may make more HP but they don't use it very well. They are just numbers and the magnums are heavy and the trannys suck. The torque is not so great either. I am sure you should easily out power the magnums. When it comes to acceleration torque is much more important. HP helps for top end but torque is what gets you moving. MY Cayenne Turbo weighs 5500 pounds with 450 Hp and 460 ft pounds of torque and I hate to say it but from 60-120 it dusts the new 997S.

Hp numbers don't always tell the entire story. My turbo produces 430hp and I recently fixed an intake leak and I feel it is closer to 450 but wont know for sure until I get her on the dyno again. I easily blow away cars producing more hp than my car including modified Z06 vettes and dodge vipers. I know of someone who has a supra and is putting down some otrageous HP number. Over 700 hp to the wheels and I can out accelerate and best of all out handle it. Althoug the dyno says big ##'s it is not alway useable power and does not necessarily mean that the car will be faster.

Hp is great but you make sacrifices by obtaining it. Driveability is compromised and so is reliability. Worst of all you think you are spending a lot on gas now. Bump up the Hp and see it drink from the keg instead of the glass.

Just my .02 worth.

deliriousga

...Dodge something-or-another says it all. That's how I refer to my Dodge. Ask him how it is in a few years, if he still has it. In 3-5 years his POC Dodge (I've had two Chrysler products, both pieces of crap and the one I have now is the last American engineered car I will ever own) will be rattling as he drives down the road and a tranny re-build will be in order. 5-10 years the thing will be falling apart and he will be cursing it every day. In 20 years it will be in a junkyard while your 40 year old 928 will still be kicking and turning heads.

Amen!!! It's not fair to compare technology from 20 years ago to today. It's like comparing carbon fiber to a plastic Easter egg and saying the egg is not as tough. For its' time, the 928 was a monster! It came out in the late 70s right after the big "oil crunch" when every other car was going to 4 cylinders. Even with 4 cylinders, the 944 had more hp than most comparable cars. 300+ hp was unheard of in the cars of the '80s. It was the early '90s before the engines started getting larger and more powerful.

If you're going to compare, you need to look at gearing, agility and balance as cobalt alluded to. Lower hp with proper gearing can beat a higher hp car easily. The 928 has all three, high hp, great gearing and agility.

You drive a true classic that kicks butt! Out of all the cars I've owned, including the newer Boxster, the 928 is the only one people ask me about with real interest, not just the cordial "so how do you like it?". They want to know everything about it and can't believe my 18 year old car looks so good and has so much hp. Shoot, it was just the other day I had teenagers in the rearview pointing at the car with the "holy crap" look on their faces. Think about how many times you've been driving down the highway and some guy in a rice-rocket thinks he can take you. The look on his face as you fly by in 3rd or 4th gear....priceless.

Love the 928 for what it was created to be. A timeless beauty that kicks butt. If you do start adding hp, be thankful they made the 928 so well it can handle it and do it right so you don't kill a classic. Most of all, enjoy what you have in the 928 as most people would love to be in our shoes driving one of the greatest automobiles of all time.

NickT

My point about the Dodge making 340 HP was just that, I know it's in a dodge and all that goes along with that..(owned a few myself and yes, they suck) My point is that is Dodge can get 340 HP out of their V8 in a cheap *** car, then our expensive V8 should also be able to produce that kind of power with ease.

It seems we all seem to spend huge amounts of $$$ on our engines to produce a relativly small increase, take that same amount of money and apply it to a chebby or a Supra and what do you get?

Please, as I said before, don't get me wrong.. I love my 928...

Drewster67

I thought tourque was the driving factor not HP - Perfect Example - Acura NSX.

This is the way I see it -

Yeah the Dodge may Have a 340hp Hemi - but its still a Dodge ...............

cobalt

Nobody is questioning that.

Although one problem with almost all Porsches is that parts are expensive. Mostly due to exclusivity and the small numbers of cars produced.....and most importantly you add the name Porsche and it is woth another 45% Most products coming fom Germany now are very pricey due to the exchange rate. I love HP like the rest of you guys but simple bolt on products are only available for the rice burners it appears. With NOPI and all this other crazy stuff going on it makes it easy for most to take a relatively useless cheap car and turn it into a monster Hp machine for relatively no $$$. Initial investment aloneis considerably less. When all is said and done I drive my cars because i like them and they feel like nothing else I have ever driven.

If I had the choice between any new higher hp car with all the bells and whistles or my 928. The 928 wins hands down. Besides how many MB's wth monster hp engines do you see daily (20). Nobody gives them a second look. Now drive by the same croud in your 928 and see how many heads turn. I don't think any of them know how many ponnies your pumping out or do they care. But they sure do love the lines of one of the most beautiful cars ever made.

IcemanG17

Is the 928 a bargin sports car....in todays $$ yes...is it expensive to maintain...also yes....is it expensive to upgrade? also yes, mostly due to its low production volume..so its harder for manufacturers to make enough kits to be profitable. However the 600+hp possiblities are out there, they do cost more than other 600hp engines (say a 350) of course, but they will last longer than the others too (at similar power levels).

Keep in mind that in the model year of your 928 they were a true supercar....for example in 1988 the 928S4 was the third most powerful production car in the world behind the Lambo Countach V12 455hp & the Ferrari Testarossa Flat 12 380hp...the most powerful normally aspirated V8 too! It also was the third fastest production car in the world at 171mph just behind the countach at 173! All this performance in a package that you could drive everyday. Take a look at the modern versions of similar vehicles....they are all in the 600+hp club and cost at least 400K

Would I like some more HP....sure we all would, but peak HP is one thing....the overall power curve is more important to acceleration than a peaky high HP number....think a small displacement turbo that makes equal HP as a 928...but only in a narrow rpm range...

Kaz

Even though all that horsepower is available I've been led to believe that our old suspension design is what's holding the cars back at the elite level of sports car racing. If you watch Mark A's Speedvision tape you get a ton of laps with him and then quite a few with the Cadillac and other new cars. You can hear the difference.

Randy V

Got it.

mark kibort

At that level, mark A has done a great job of making a car work close to as well as the others. there are certain disadvantages the 928 would have to a $1,000,000 caddy. those guy are running the absolute best drivers (pilgrim, angelleli, and even the black sheep Oliver Berreta whom Anderson beat outright, until they made him pit due to his hood coming up)

point is, the 928 in Anersons form is as good as it gets. sure, you can squeeze more hp out with a supercharger, but 500hp to the rear wheels is about all the platform can handle. any more, and you start having real issues with saftey at top speed in a road race environment. in order for his car to handle better, he better dump $40k or so on a windtunnel day. another $40k on a suspension dyno day, and then the chassis may be able to handle another 100hp .( not to mention the other components like transmission, torque tube, etc). even then, the 928 will still be $900,000 behind the R and D of the caddy.

the reason the GT3RS can run so effortlessly at a speed faster than the 928 with less power, is the car handles amazingly well. the GT3RSR probably has 450 ish to the rear wheels max. however with a top team the GT3RSR is over 7 seconds faster than anderson at laguna seca on the same tires.

at that level, its all about $$$$$

Mk

mark kibort

yes, equal peak hp, the peaky engine hp curve will be at a disadvantge, unless closer gearing is used to equal it out, or the car is made lighter to take advange of a better HP to weight ratio. (typically one of the advantages of a turbo is being able to use a smaller , lighter engine)

in general terms, same hp you will probably end up with simular performance. (as the turbo peakier hp may be lighter) also, if the car doesnt have a turbo, the close ratio gear box can be used to equal things out.

one thing nice about big torque engines, is that in street applications you can lug it around and it feels very fast, without going to the revs.

make no mistake, its still average HP (area under the HP curve used) to the wheels that makes you accelerate and go fast as you say!

Mk

goliver

It has always cost more to get more HP into a Porsche than on an engine that is produced on a huge scale such as a small block Chevy or Dodge. Just simple economy of scale. It can be done but it will cost some bucks. It isn't really fair to compare my 18 year old 928 to my Dad's brand new Vette. I still like my car but his is awful nice.

My point is that a comparison of an '87 Vette or whatever hot rod go fast car you wish to compare with the available iron from Stuttgart from the same period will yield more favorable results for us owners of the older P-cars. If you compare year for year the Porsche almost always will come out ahead. There of course are exceptions but not from any domestic iron.

Take an '87 Toyota Supra turbo or 300ZX turbo (the top of the line from both Japanese manufactures of the time) and do a comparo to an '87 S4. Not positive about the Supra, but I owned an '87 300ZX turbo and it had a whopping 205 HP. The following is an excerpt of a test of the top perfomers (Japanese) of 1987. Compare to an '87 S4 and you will quickly find there is no comparison.

In a comparison test against the '86 Toyota Supra, Mazda RX-7 Turbo and Dodge Conquest TSi, Motor Trend wrote, "In a four-car contest somebody has to finish 4th. The 300ZX Turbo has a mouthwatering engine, producing 200 smooth, effortless horsepower, but it is handicapped by its mediocre-at-best chassis…. The 300ZX suspension doesn't control pitch motion adequately, body roll is only slightly better and it's the combination of these motions that limits the car's handling performance. Even in steady-state cornering conditions like the skid pad, the 300ZX is almost 10-percent slower, at 0.80 g, than the others." Still, the '86 300ZX with its single turbo was decently quick, making the trip from zero to 60 mph in just 7.5 seconds with the quarter-mile going by in 15.9 ticks for Motor Trend.


Don't know about the rest of you guys, but the word anemic comes to my mind.

Cheers,