LS1 conversion
07-05-2014, 09:16 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
There is an adequate amount of power and for me thats being able to spin the wheels by rolling on the throttle at 100 mph in 3rd. After that its probably too much.
07-05-2014, 01:49 PM
#17
I had to start at the back on this race, my wing had broke in practice. i missed qualifying trying to fix it then for the race, the boys at Airpower racing were kind enough to bower me a kognition wing they had but I mounted it with to much AOA, I bet Dans car in the video makes over 450 rwhp. Cam headers and tune really wakes these things up. Just linked the video to show how fast they can be.
Last edited by z06801; 07-05-2014 at 02:27 PM.
08-31-2014, 12:44 PM
#19
Racer
Andy
08-31-2014, 03:58 PM
#20
We have everyday modern street cars with 300+ HP. Even economy cars like a Civic have 205 HP (and lighter weight).
Haven't driven a V8 944 (yet) but everyone I've seen post about them has said the car feels like it was built for the power an LS produces.
Haven't driven a V8 944 (yet) but everyone I've seen post about them has said the car feels like it was built for the power an LS produces.
09-01-2014, 02:31 AM
#21
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exactly, precisely correct. still... reaching towards brutal simplicity/Lamborghini Gallardo performance
while preserving the 944's balanced platform will continue to be demonized.
wait: this car was never meant for 450~500 hp at the wheels and 470 Lb-Ft of torque.....
unless of course all that power is coming from a pee shooter 4 cylinder with a turbine that costs a small fortune to run...
why? cuz, the purist people said so......
so what if it suffers from a lot of electrical problems and other temperamental issues...
or that once you add power, you run aground w/ numerous tuning issues and blown head gaskets....
or that the first one you build will probably blow up.... no worries: after a period of mourning over your misfortunes, you and your tech guru will have a meeting of the minds and default back to 'it was a fluke man....'
and he convinces you to spend another 12~15 grand building another.
and when the greatest engine platform ever is finally done leaving you penniless – your last hope of converting your beautifully balanced sports car into a proper Porsche cruiser – blows sky high ON THE DYNO.
wish this all wasn't true, but, for 90~95% of the combatant's, historically, it is true.
conduct a true survey of every avatar on the 944T forum from the last 5~7 years....
it's quite disturbing. *944 ownership is unlike any car I can think of.
the reasons people are gone isn't because they got bored with the 944T and decided to get Audis or 911s....
PEOPLE FRIGGING LOVE THESE CARS. myself included.
1. sure, it happens a few times, but fatigue in the ownership experience usually plays a significant role
in convincing people without blown engines to head for the exits.....
2. but, the many if not most of the dearly departed are gone due to endless, repeated,
(and in varying degrees, personally devastating) engine failures.
3. still, a few others start exotic four banger builds... and 5 years later, they're still not done.
their situations/marriages/jobs/incomes change, and they put the cars aside... at some time after, the projects are discarded.
all the while; they could have had a pair of 996s and been driving PORSCHES the whole time.
or put together 4 or 5 911 motors.
it seems like I'm being mean.
it's one thing to be fully bought in the 4 cylinder as classic Porsche ride. there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and everything to admire.... and if you can live with a fun car with 200~280 hp *(like with a 944T or 968), in most instances, a balance of investment, enjoyment and car service life can be reached without exceeding pain and extended service interruptions.
but if you're a cult fanatic in the 4 cylinder engine platform as a high-performance/stout sportscar/entry level supercar,
it's quite likely that your days driving and enjoying the 944 will be limited. or worse...
there are members on this forum who post over a number of years and have hardly driven their 944s.
if such a state of affairs persists for some months, well, it's a Porsche – that's quite understandable.
when such a state of affairs persists for years and more years, then you might be on the fast track to becoming a delusional cult fanatic
of the Porsche 944.... the complexities of 944 ownership have outpaced your financial resources.
life is too short for such blatant lunacy.
when you're done spending another 20~30~40 thousand dollars – at the end of the day, it's just a 4 cylinder motor...
it sounds like a frigging lawnmower. even a good one only sounds like a slightly better lawnmower.
oh, but it weighs a few pounds less than a V8.... and it's German/Euro high tech from the '80s.
oh, and the Euro guys say we have to run it, lest we become sworn enemies of the Fatherland, Europe.... and humanity.
work it out from there.
while preserving the 944's balanced platform will continue to be demonized.
wait: this car was never meant for 450~500 hp at the wheels and 470 Lb-Ft of torque.....
unless of course all that power is coming from a pee shooter 4 cylinder with a turbine that costs a small fortune to run...
why? cuz, the purist people said so......
so what if it suffers from a lot of electrical problems and other temperamental issues...
or that once you add power, you run aground w/ numerous tuning issues and blown head gaskets....
or that the first one you build will probably blow up.... no worries: after a period of mourning over your misfortunes, you and your tech guru will have a meeting of the minds and default back to 'it was a fluke man....'
and he convinces you to spend another 12~15 grand building another.
and when the greatest engine platform ever is finally done leaving you penniless – your last hope of converting your beautifully balanced sports car into a proper Porsche cruiser – blows sky high ON THE DYNO.
wish this all wasn't true, but, for 90~95% of the combatant's, historically, it is true.
conduct a true survey of every avatar on the 944T forum from the last 5~7 years....
it's quite disturbing. *944 ownership is unlike any car I can think of.
the reasons people are gone isn't because they got bored with the 944T and decided to get Audis or 911s....
PEOPLE FRIGGING LOVE THESE CARS. myself included.
1. sure, it happens a few times, but fatigue in the ownership experience usually plays a significant role
in convincing people without blown engines to head for the exits.....
2. but, the many if not most of the dearly departed are gone due to endless, repeated,
(and in varying degrees, personally devastating) engine failures.
3. still, a few others start exotic four banger builds... and 5 years later, they're still not done.
their situations/marriages/jobs/incomes change, and they put the cars aside... at some time after, the projects are discarded.
all the while; they could have had a pair of 996s and been driving PORSCHES the whole time.
or put together 4 or 5 911 motors.
it seems like I'm being mean.
it's one thing to be fully bought in the 4 cylinder as classic Porsche ride. there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and everything to admire.... and if you can live with a fun car with 200~280 hp *(like with a 944T or 968), in most instances, a balance of investment, enjoyment and car service life can be reached without exceeding pain and extended service interruptions.
but if you're a cult fanatic in the 4 cylinder engine platform as a high-performance/stout sportscar/entry level supercar,
it's quite likely that your days driving and enjoying the 944 will be limited. or worse...
there are members on this forum who post over a number of years and have hardly driven their 944s.
if such a state of affairs persists for some months, well, it's a Porsche – that's quite understandable.
when such a state of affairs persists for years and more years, then you might be on the fast track to becoming a delusional cult fanatic
of the Porsche 944.... the complexities of 944 ownership have outpaced your financial resources.
life is too short for such blatant lunacy.
when you're done spending another 20~30~40 thousand dollars – at the end of the day, it's just a 4 cylinder motor...
it sounds like a frigging lawnmower. even a good one only sounds like a slightly better lawnmower.
oh, but it weighs a few pounds less than a V8.... and it's German/Euro high tech from the '80s.
oh, and the Euro guys say we have to run it, lest we become sworn enemies of the Fatherland, Europe.... and humanity.
work it out from there.
Last edited by odurandina; 09-01-2014 at 02:03 PM.
09-01-2014, 05:17 AM
#22
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*it's fitting that this thread is called LS conversion....
what is truly required, before you begin planning a project with such an extreme outcome as an LS swap is conversion to a somewhat unbiased understanding of the limitations of a 1980s 4 cylinder platform weighed against the scale, complexity, cost and long term service offered by going V8... it's not easy to weigh for many reasons, (not the least of which being that we're starved for good numbers on the hidden problems, attrition and success rates with running the turbo 4 platform.
this isn't taking away anything from the fine work that many of our 4 cylinder engine builders do...
especially in the context of moderat boost/power.
but, anyone thinking of an aggressive tuning regime should read this....
you might ask; is post # 48 a fair critique of oem Porsche 944 ownership in the context of tuning?
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...f-trust-4.html
then, read a few dozen tuning my 944T threads.
next follow up and you'll usually find the decisive thread where ain't pretty happens. life ain't pretty.
1 more thing....
I love this one even more because it serves as a fine metaphor to the 944 ownership experience....
(don't even think of not clicking).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUwrB0ngGNc
one more thing (2), I can post a complete list of parts needed for the swap.
what is truly required, before you begin planning a project with such an extreme outcome as an LS swap is conversion to a somewhat unbiased understanding of the limitations of a 1980s 4 cylinder platform weighed against the scale, complexity, cost and long term service offered by going V8... it's not easy to weigh for many reasons, (not the least of which being that we're starved for good numbers on the hidden problems, attrition and success rates with running the turbo 4 platform.
this isn't taking away anything from the fine work that many of our 4 cylinder engine builders do...
especially in the context of moderat boost/power.
but, anyone thinking of an aggressive tuning regime should read this....
you might ask; is post # 48 a fair critique of oem Porsche 944 ownership in the context of tuning?
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...f-trust-4.html
then, read a few dozen tuning my 944T threads.
next follow up and you'll usually find the decisive thread where ain't pretty happens. life ain't pretty.
1 more thing....
I love this one even more because it serves as a fine metaphor to the 944 ownership experience....
(don't even think of not clicking).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUwrB0ngGNc
one more thing (2), I can post a complete list of parts needed for the swap.
Last edited by odurandina; 09-01-2014 at 02:08 PM.
09-01-2014, 08:19 AM
#23
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Rennlist Member
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Here we go again
How many Alfa Romeos have you owned ODU? You should definitely try to own 1980s alfa. 944 has NO electrical problems and is not even T of temperamental.
I think the key element of understanding how good & reliable 944 really is, is to drive other cars from same era that were produced in circle of ~5000 miles from its origin.
Comparing it to american 1955 design truck engine is just wrong on so many levels. Also if that V8 was really that good, Detroit wouldn't be where it is. It is only popular in usa because you have 4x cheaper gasoline than the rest of the world.
Would you still convert to small block chevy if price of gas would be ~$9 /gal like it is in europe?
How many Alfa Romeos have you owned ODU? You should definitely try to own 1980s alfa. 944 has NO electrical problems and is not even T of temperamental.
I think the key element of understanding how good & reliable 944 really is, is to drive other cars from same era that were produced in circle of ~5000 miles from its origin.
Comparing it to american 1955 design truck engine is just wrong on so many levels. Also if that V8 was really that good, Detroit wouldn't be where it is. It is only popular in usa because you have 4x cheaper gasoline than the rest of the world.
Would you still convert to small block chevy if price of gas would be ~$9 /gal like it is in europe?
Last edited by Voith; 09-01-2014 at 08:34 AM.
09-01-2014, 09:44 AM
#24
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no. I'd run the 968 motor – and even that would be tough.
the costs and time associated with wrenching + gas prices + the costs of living
+ chasing all the amazing women over there = I'm prolly out of the car altogether.
ahh, Alfa's I almost forgot about the other part of your post.
ummm, the only persons who told me I have to own Alfa's are epic America haters, Jeremy Clarkson, and James May. 
the costs and time associated with wrenching + gas prices + the costs of living
+ chasing all the amazing women over there = I'm prolly out of the car altogether.
ahh, Alfa's I almost forgot about the other part of your post.
ummm, the only persons who told me I have to own Alfa's are epic America haters, Jeremy Clarkson, and James May.
Last edited by odurandina; 09-01-2014 at 10:37 AM.
09-01-2014, 10:44 AM
#25
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Here we go again
How many Alfa Romeos have you owned ODU? You should definitely try to own 1980s alfa. 944 has NO electrical problems and is not even T of temperamental.
I think the key element of understanding how good & reliable 944 really is, is to drive other cars from same era that were produced in circle of ~5000 miles from its origin.
Comparing it to american 1955 design truck engine is just wrong on so many levels. Also if that V8 was really that good, Detroit wouldn't be where it is. It is only popular in usa because you have 4x cheaper gasoline than the rest of the world.
Would you still convert to small block chevy if price of gas would be ~$9 /gal like it is in europe?
How many Alfa Romeos have you owned ODU? You should definitely try to own 1980s alfa. 944 has NO electrical problems and is not even T of temperamental.
I think the key element of understanding how good & reliable 944 really is, is to drive other cars from same era that were produced in circle of ~5000 miles from its origin.
Comparing it to american 1955 design truck engine is just wrong on so many levels. Also if that V8 was really that good, Detroit wouldn't be where it is. It is only popular in usa because you have 4x cheaper gasoline than the rest of the world.
Would you still convert to small block chevy if price of gas would be ~$9 /gal like it is in europe?
And realistic conversion price doing your own work. 6-7k for an LS motor. Doesn't matter if you pick a 5.3L or a 5.7, price of the engine is the same after you get all the correct f-body accessories on the 5.3L.
09-01-2014, 11:25 AM
#26
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Alfa is interesting phenomena. It breaks down constantly and electric systems of the car never work all together.
Nevertheless you love it and every time that it breaks down, you love it more. It has a soul that really no car Ive ever had can compare to.
Ive restored 1986 33 Quadrifoglio Verde,(flat 4 banger) damn thing had 2 double webers and 12 separate rubber fuel hoses under the hood. It leaked fuel all the time everywhere.
But I loved it. It was stolen few months after I finished.
PDoc:
On the street 4banger turbo should use less gas.
Nevertheless you love it and every time that it breaks down, you love it more. It has a soul that really no car Ive ever had can compare to.
Ive restored 1986 33 Quadrifoglio Verde,(flat 4 banger) damn thing had 2 double webers and 12 separate rubber fuel hoses under the hood. It leaked fuel all the time everywhere.
But I loved it. It was stolen few months after I finished.
PDoc:
On the street 4banger turbo should use less gas.
09-01-2014, 11:44 AM
#27
09-01-2014, 01:02 PM
#28
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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i'll be getting 81.0mph @ 2400 rpm on 285 35 18s contisportcontact 3's w/ 6 mm of tread.
hoping for 24 mpg at 65mph.
the summary of 944T forced induction life is captured in spooky fashion in Bob Weir's Victim Or the Crime
from ironically; the album, Built to Last...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUwrB0ngGNc
Patience runs out on the junkie
The dark side hires another soul
Did he steal his fate or earn it?
Was he force fed, did he learn it?
Whatever happened to his precious self control?
Like him, I'm tired of try'n' to heal
This tomcat heart with which I'm blessed
Is destruction lovings twin?
Must I chose to lose or win?
Maybe when my turn comes I will have guessed
These are the horns of the dilemma
What truth this proof against all lies?
When sacred fails before profane
The wisest man is deemed insane
Even the purest of romantics compromise
What fixation feeds this fever?
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime, or the crime?
And so I wrestle with the angel
To see who'll reap the seeds I sow
Am I the driver or the driven?
Will I be damned to be forgiven?
Is there anybody here but me who needs to know?
What fixation feeds this fever?
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime, or the crime?
Grateful Dead | MetroLyrics
hoping for 24 mpg at 65mph.
the summary of 944T forced induction life is captured in spooky fashion in Bob Weir's Victim Or the Crime
from ironically; the album, Built to Last...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUwrB0ngGNc
Patience runs out on the junkie
The dark side hires another soul
Did he steal his fate or earn it?
Was he force fed, did he learn it?
Whatever happened to his precious self control?
Like him, I'm tired of try'n' to heal
This tomcat heart with which I'm blessed
Is destruction lovings twin?
Must I chose to lose or win?
Maybe when my turn comes I will have guessed
These are the horns of the dilemma
What truth this proof against all lies?
When sacred fails before profane
The wisest man is deemed insane
Even the purest of romantics compromise
What fixation feeds this fever?
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime, or the crime?
And so I wrestle with the angel
To see who'll reap the seeds I sow
Am I the driver or the driven?
Will I be damned to be forgiven?
Is there anybody here but me who needs to know?
What fixation feeds this fever?
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime?
Am I the victim or the crime, or the crime?
Grateful Dead | MetroLyrics
Last edited by odurandina; 09-01-2014 at 02:22 PM.
09-01-2014, 01:32 PM
#29
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Enough people have tried this before me that there shouldn't need to be any guessing or trial-and-error on my part.
09-01-2014, 01:41 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
