LS1 conversion
#91
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#92
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For the suspension and brake upgrades, I'm currently working on figuring out what parts I need to convert my small-offset car into a large-offset car, partly for future compatibility with late M030 suspension, and also for a planned Boxster ABS retrofit. So this offset swap is going to set the stage for better suspension and brakes later on.
Is the stock fuel pump capable of supplying the fuel the LS1 needs, or does it need to be changed out? What about the fuel lines, can they flow enough? What about the return--isn't the LS1 a return-less engine?
One last question: did your $3k-4k price estimate include an engine, or everything but the engine? If it included an engine, what were you figuring for the engine itself, so I know how to adjust according to the cost of the actual engine I get?
Is the stock fuel pump capable of supplying the fuel the LS1 needs, or does it need to be changed out? What about the fuel lines, can they flow enough? What about the return--isn't the LS1 a return-less engine?
One last question: did your $3k-4k price estimate include an engine, or everything but the engine? If it included an engine, what were you figuring for the engine itself, so I know how to adjust according to the cost of the actual engine I get?
#93
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I just post it here for other people interested. ...
Well here we go...
Engine- you mentioned junkyard engines... The obvious first choices would be an LS1 out of a vette, camaro, firebird, etc. and an LS2 out of a gto or vette. These are going to cost more, another solution is a truck engine. They come in 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.0 flavors and can usually be had for $500 or less. The truck engines will require you to use an LS2 or 6 intake for clearance. You can also find an LT1/4 or a sbc engine, but the mounts and bellhousings are different from the LS engines. Doing an lt twice, I would much rather go truck engine with maybe some ported/worked over corvette heads as they can be had for cheap. Hindsight is a bitch. The ls/ls based truck engines are like Legos, you can interchange things very easy and this makes for awesome power gains if you decide to modify down the road.
Mounts- Texas Performance Concepts has them as well as anything else you will need, sub frame spacers for good clearance, bellhousing, clutch kit, etc.
Exhaust- tpc also offers a couple types of headers, long tubes and shorty headers. Lt's are expensive but worth it. Shorty is good if you're on a budget.
For the lt engines, there are a couple aftermarket headers that work from Sanderson. Patriot also makes ones that will work but have to be modified. I have fully custom mid length headers which is a great solution if you can fabricate.
(My exhaust consists of custom headers each with a 3" v band collector, y pipe to a single 4" corrector, straight through muffler 4" ask the way back)
after the headers you will have to get the rest of the exhaust built. You will need 4 o2 sensor bungs unless you tune out 2 of them. Early lt engines only used 2 also.
Wiring- easy. Easier than you think. I have all the wiring pinouts and diagrams when you need them. You slice less than 10 wires I think. You can get an aftermarket harness or pull one out of the donor car you got the engine from, also take the ecu.
Trans- you're going to want to find a turbo or S2 trans because they are stronger. The NA one is weak and fragile, the torque WILL break it. You can use it for a short while if you absolutely have to, but you're driving on borrowed time.
Cooling- upgrade to a turbo or s2 radiator, they're thicker and a little longer, or an aftermarket unit. I had issues with the stock fan fitment so I got two slim fans and they fit great and I have plenty of clearance. You can also get a lower temp thermostat and program you're ecu to turn on the fans when your tstat opens. Water wetter keeps temps down too.
Brakes- you need to remove the vacuum assist, the valve covers are in the way. This presents a situation, manual brakes or hydroboost. Hydroboost gives you power brakes by assisting via power steering pump. People use the Mustang or BMW system. Back to what you need to do. .. Find a junkyard 924 and take the "cereal bowl". It's a plate (kind of) that the brake master cylinder and diaphragm mount to on the firewall. The 944 one is deeper and the 924 is shallow but they have the same bolt pattern. Then, you have to make an adapter plate to mount the master cylinder to that bowl. I can send you pics of mine when you're ready.
I have a manual sport steering rack so I'm running manual brakes, I have upgraded to boxster 4 piston calipers and 1984-89 911 Carrera slotted and drilled rotors made possible by some adapters. You might want ti think about a brake upgrade as well.
You're going to need all the swap parts- Texas Performance Concepts. Things like clutch kit, trans, mounts, headers, vss kit, etc. Quality parts. Check out 944hybrids.forumotion.com
Great forum, I found most of my swap parts used on the classifieds section and kept my costs down. There's a lot of good people in the forum that are willing to help.
You're also going to want to upgrade your suspension of it isn't already, or modify what you do have. I can help with that also if you want.
If you have any other concerns feel free to ask. I could expand exponentially on each of the subjects but I covered all the bases for you.
Well here we go...
Engine- you mentioned junkyard engines... The obvious first choices would be an LS1 out of a vette, camaro, firebird, etc. and an LS2 out of a gto or vette. These are going to cost more, another solution is a truck engine. They come in 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.0 flavors and can usually be had for $500 or less. The truck engines will require you to use an LS2 or 6 intake for clearance. You can also find an LT1/4 or a sbc engine, but the mounts and bellhousings are different from the LS engines. Doing an lt twice, I would much rather go truck engine with maybe some ported/worked over corvette heads as they can be had for cheap. Hindsight is a bitch. The ls/ls based truck engines are like Legos, you can interchange things very easy and this makes for awesome power gains if you decide to modify down the road.
Mounts- Texas Performance Concepts has them as well as anything else you will need, sub frame spacers for good clearance, bellhousing, clutch kit, etc.
Exhaust- tpc also offers a couple types of headers, long tubes and shorty headers. Lt's are expensive but worth it. Shorty is good if you're on a budget.
For the lt engines, there are a couple aftermarket headers that work from Sanderson. Patriot also makes ones that will work but have to be modified. I have fully custom mid length headers which is a great solution if you can fabricate.
(My exhaust consists of custom headers each with a 3" v band collector, y pipe to a single 4" corrector, straight through muffler 4" ask the way back)
after the headers you will have to get the rest of the exhaust built. You will need 4 o2 sensor bungs unless you tune out 2 of them. Early lt engines only used 2 also.
Wiring- easy. Easier than you think. I have all the wiring pinouts and diagrams when you need them. You slice less than 10 wires I think. You can get an aftermarket harness or pull one out of the donor car you got the engine from, also take the ecu.
Trans- you're going to want to find a turbo or S2 trans because they are stronger. The NA one is weak and fragile, the torque WILL break it. You can use it for a short while if you absolutely have to, but you're driving on borrowed time.
Cooling- upgrade to a turbo or s2 radiator, they're thicker and a little longer, or an aftermarket unit. I had issues with the stock fan fitment so I got two slim fans and they fit great and I have plenty of clearance. You can also get a lower temp thermostat and program you're ecu to turn on the fans when your tstat opens. Water wetter keeps temps down too.
Brakes- you need to remove the vacuum assist, the valve covers are in the way. This presents a situation, manual brakes or hydroboost. Hydroboost gives you power brakes by assisting via power steering pump. People use the Mustang or BMW system. Back to what you need to do. .. Find a junkyard 924 and take the "cereal bowl". It's a plate (kind of) that the brake master cylinder and diaphragm mount to on the firewall. The 944 one is deeper and the 924 is shallow but they have the same bolt pattern. Then, you have to make an adapter plate to mount the master cylinder to that bowl. I can send you pics of mine when you're ready.
I have a manual sport steering rack so I'm running manual brakes, I have upgraded to boxster 4 piston calipers and 1984-89 911 Carrera slotted and drilled rotors made possible by some adapters. You might want ti think about a brake upgrade as well.
You're going to need all the swap parts- Texas Performance Concepts. Things like clutch kit, trans, mounts, headers, vss kit, etc. Quality parts. Check out 944hybrids.forumotion.com
Great forum, I found most of my swap parts used on the classifieds section and kept my costs down. There's a lot of good people in the forum that are willing to help.
You're also going to want to upgrade your suspension of it isn't already, or modify what you do have. I can help with that also if you want.
If you have any other concerns feel free to ask. I could expand exponentially on each of the subjects but I covered all the bases for you.
so what kind of gm engine can I swap in a 1984 944 N/A ? any truck v8 or strictly ls?
thanks in advance
#94
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so what kind of gm engine can I swap in a 1984 944 N/A ? any truck v8 or strictly ls?
Engine Displacement Bore x Stroke HP/TQ Compression
LS1 5.7L (346cid) 3.89 x 3.62 305-350/350 10.2:1
LS6 5.7L (346cid) 3.89 x 3.62 385-405/400 10.5:1
LR4 4.8L (293cid) 3.78 x 3.27 255-285/285-295 9.47:1
LM7/L59/LM4
5.3L (327cid) 3.78 x 3.62 270-295/315-335 9.5:1
L33 5.3L (327cid) 3.78 x 3.62 310/335 10.0:1
LQ4 6.0L (364cid) 4.00 x 3.62 300-325/360-370 9.5:1
LQ9 6.0L (364cid) 4.00 x 3.62 345/380 10.0:1
LS2 6.0L (364cid) 4.00 x 3.62 400/400 10.9:1
L76 6.0L (364cid) 4.00 x 3.62 361/385 10.4:1
LY6 6.0L (364cid) 4.00 x 3.62 385/400 9.6:1
LY2/L20
4.8L (293cid) 3.78 x 3.27 260-302/295-305 9.1:1
LH6/LY5/LMG
5.3L (327cid) 3.78 x 3.62 300-320/320-340 9.9:1
LC9/LH8
5.3L (327cid) 3.78 x 3.62 300-320/320-335 9.5:1
LS7 7.0L (427cid) 4.125 x 4.000 505/470 11.0:1
L92 6.2L (376cid) 4.065 x 3.622 403/415 10.5:1
LS3 6.2L (376cid) 4.065 x 3.622 426-430/424 10.7:1
L99 6.2L (376cid) 4.065 x 3.622 400/410 10.7:1
LSA 6.2L (376cid) 4.065 x 3.622 556-580/551-556 9.1:1
LS9 6.2L (376cid) 4.065 x 3.622 638/604 9.1:1
Spend some time on http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/ It is the single best source of information on this swap.
There is enough information in the Wiki (http://944hybrids.pbworks.com/w/page/1147189/FrontPage) and the forums there to get you through a basic swap.
#99
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You won't be able to use the intake manifold or any of the accessories. So you'll need to pick up a car intake manifold and preferably either F body (camaro/firebird) accessories and brackets or GTO ones. Not corvette ones, they also don't fit.
These do make decent power with a good cam/exhaust combo but by the time you've gotten all the stuff you need to get it to fit in your car it won't be such a deal anymore...
These do make decent power with a good cam/exhaust combo but by the time you've gotten all the stuff you need to get it to fit in your car it won't be such a deal anymore...
#102
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What do you mean LS accessories? They're ALL LS accessories but you specifically WANT the ones from an F body. Both the brackets and the accessories themselves.
#104
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LS6, 243 marked heads are worth maybe 15hp. I wouldn't bother with the LS6 cam, there are far better options available aftermarket. Cams are cheap for these motors and a decent cam can easily add 75hp alone.
I made ~380rwhp on my factory LS1 with the "bad" LS1 heads, shorty headers and a small cam.
I made ~380rwhp on my factory LS1 with the "bad" LS1 heads, shorty headers and a small cam.