Creating a list of ''trust''
06-28-2013, 11:41 AM
#46
Team Owner
I saw one the other day .. guy was complaining of no spark on his SC. i was impressed as he had a no start condition and already assessed it was due to a no spark condition, by putting in the usual spare plug and cranking it ... ...
one of the responses .. "did you check for vacuum leaks ? these cars are known not to start if you have a vacuum leak .. "
06-28-2013, 12:40 PM
#47
Nordschleife Master
Some of the other forums I'm on do actually have an anonymous feedback system that would probably create what the op is intending. I have found it useful at times.
06-28-2013, 04:40 PM
#48
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
if i may, no discussion of the 944 is complete without talking about attrition....
while it might not be true for a 69 Vette, Hemi Cuda or even a Toyota Supra, in the post-production 944 world, keeping on with the never-die montage sometimes requires considerable effort and $$$.
when it comes to the Porsche 944. the departure of many of the brightest, most accomplished of 944 enthusiasts, repeat owners, (excited and hesitant) newbies, has happened in more of a host of ways than just about any car i can think of.... and i can't think of too many other cars, including many that are worth more, go just about as fast, etc -- where keeping them on the road is so damn hard !!
so, i think the 944 is unique.... the car has a classic shape and performance that ranks in the top 3 or 4 automobiles built in the 1980s !!... when people drive 'em, they get the bug. and during their tenure of ownership, people talk about their daily drives and planned trips with almost an embarrassing level of enthusiasm... and who the f_ck can blame us !!
no worries, this is nothing new.....
but if and when things get expensive, or go sour, and their rides are either sold off for junk or parted, they liken experience to good friends they've grown to love and cherish being ripped from their hands....
but if separation is so painful, why can't people just keep these cars around longer?
when I arrived here about 4 years ago, it seemed like somebody was buying a new N/A or Turbo every few hours and posting about it. and there were, what seemed like dozens of daily contributors with long histories with the 944.... others-recently reborn, and newcomers.....
you could easily count more than a dozen projects being updated daily or weekly.... someone would post a tech question and 20 different people would post a response within just a few hours. we'd have as many as a dozen discussion threads on a whole range of topics going on for weeks (or months) with at least a couple of dozen seriously unhinged enthusiasts giving their ideas of the 944 nirvana (in addition to all the rest of us lesser-experts).... hell, this thread would have been up to 200~300+ posts by now.
here's a simple tech question (posted a few months before Techno Duck finally decided
it'd be better to marry the prom queen and go V8) on the 944T forum exactly 2 years ago;
"Need help figuring this out; lean spot at ~3k rpm..."
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...at-3k-rpm.html
within a few days, T-Duck had a discussion with 115 responses (including his own).
still, it hadn't been but a few weeks sooner that one of the old timers with 26 rebuilds to his credit
was billowing on about the same where have all the good people gone topic (violins please)....
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...nnlist-jd.html
You know I was here in the old porschephiles days then came this Rennlist.com.
I gotta say man it just aint the same.
You come on here talking about building a 3.0 ltr motor with 500 hp evereryone responds.
LARGER TURBO SURE YOU WILL GET AROUND 50 RESPONSES.
I ask a simple question about what shims you guys use I got 1 answer.
when it was an e mail list at least everyone contributed including me.
Most people on here are generally helpful but man there are a sh*tload of **** holes on here.
sure, we had our normal steady stream of 944T cataclysms/owners getting thrown out of their homes/or worse—never to be heard from again.... but, even by this time, things gotten really bad, imo. seems like around late, 2010 and all through 2011~12, there was a critical mass of part outs of Turbo's and N/A cars too.... (to be fair, i suspect many of these were plucked from other people with non-running cars hanging around here or there)... at one point, the numbers of part outs got so bad, one of the contributors sent me a pm and said, "it looks like a junk car swap meet now. isn't going to be much of a car forum anymore if this keeps up...."
i got flamed for calling this friendly haven; the junk car swap meet,
but the truth is, i stole that one from one of our beloved 944 brothers.
on a bright note, seems there aren't as many 944Ts blowing up anymore. but I've also noted an increasing chorus of individuals advising caution about how much boost is too much, LOL. don't know if this is part of the reason but, we're not seeing somebody else's ride blowing up every few weeks (or days) like before.... but what about the other possibility; that we're finally running out of the 944Ts.... will Lart soon be cutting up Boxsters and Cayman's? ok, maybe not just yet, or perhaps the 968 will also be making a brief stop at Lart's house....
i'm beginning to wonder; are 944Ts and even n/a's (the ones actually running) becoming more rare? if these forums are any indication, 'maybe...' nowadays, when you post a question on either of the 944 forums, seems you're seeing only a small handful of responses. the same discussion threads that used to go on and on, now fall off the vine in a day or two. well, they haven't built any 944s in what, 22 years? i guess it was bound to happen eventually.
that being said, i'm pleased to see a few 944s at the Rolex 24 or PCA type event....
back in the day, the first-generation owners used them as disposable sports cars. i loved mine, but i can easily be included in that group.... i had one just past new.... after that, came the repeat owners, and serious enthusiasts....
a significant number of core enthusiasts saved the 944.... some of the projects were epic; people spent a small fortune, blew themselves up, and never returned. but even without the big explosions, the 944 can wear out even those most loyal to the brand in a relatively short time. many demonstrate full battle fatigue after they experience their second or third partial engine failure, or whatever.... I've seen their passion for the cars in their posts... they come in, they come back... but after a while we don't hear from them for awhile, and a few months later, they're posting a part out...
after recovering from extreme deprivation, some must be out there-driving the cheap knock offs; Genesis, Scion, G-37, etc... or even dull auto crap, those more fortunate riding Coxsters, 911s, or Cayennes.
it's great to see new owners coming in.
there's a reason why i inform these people about V8s. in a relatively short time period, an owner is likely to spend $10~12 k putting the cars on the road and daily driving them... that's a lot of capital on an engine that is just as likely to have a partial or total failure not far down the road.... i think a V8 swap represents the possibility to see 100,000~150,000 more miles on a typical Porsche engine maintenance budget.... not to mention the time the cars go off the road getting headgaskets, or swapping engines.
i believe the future of the 944 is linked to hot-rodding/max-bang-for-the-buck that you get with the Chevy V8.
not only are you treated to a car that has far fewer headaches, the performance upgrade is insane.
i believe getting involved with a 944 (due to dying electrical, headgaskets, rod bearings, etc) and 944T (a true semi-exotic) requires serious thinking;
and while we're on the topic of rod-bearings, who in God's name replaces the rod-bearings or spends the money to do so on a crappy 150 hp, 4 cylinder after spending thousands of dollars keeping the timing system going ??? come on man !! gotta really thank Porsche for that one... it took effort to design an engine so ridiculous !!
1. the local garage: there are fewer and fewer techs out there with 944T expertise.
2. getting help here (some might be sensing that that all is not well):
i agree. the reason we have this thread is mostly due to; attrition...
most of the brightest 944 minds are gone...
finally, some cherished thoughts from a few who figured out that it actually might be more fun to drive a car that also
only sells for $8~15 k, but also doesn't require being a technical genius to enjoy....
and they never looked back...
and a couple moaaa who think 180~190 mph might be kinda fun....
circle of trust..... can i interest you in the F-355 Forum?
odurandina.
while it might not be true for a 69 Vette, Hemi Cuda or even a Toyota Supra, in the post-production 944 world, keeping on with the never-die montage sometimes requires considerable effort and $$$.
when it comes to the Porsche 944. the departure of many of the brightest, most accomplished of 944 enthusiasts, repeat owners, (excited and hesitant) newbies, has happened in more of a host of ways than just about any car i can think of.... and i can't think of too many other cars, including many that are worth more, go just about as fast, etc -- where keeping them on the road is so damn hard !!
so, i think the 944 is unique.... the car has a classic shape and performance that ranks in the top 3 or 4 automobiles built in the 1980s !!... when people drive 'em, they get the bug. and during their tenure of ownership, people talk about their daily drives and planned trips with almost an embarrassing level of enthusiasm... and who the f_ck can blame us !!
no worries, this is nothing new.....
but if and when things get expensive, or go sour, and their rides are either sold off for junk or parted, they liken experience to good friends they've grown to love and cherish being ripped from their hands....
but if separation is so painful, why can't people just keep these cars around longer?
when I arrived here about 4 years ago, it seemed like somebody was buying a new N/A or Turbo every few hours and posting about it. and there were, what seemed like dozens of daily contributors with long histories with the 944.... others-recently reborn, and newcomers.....
you could easily count more than a dozen projects being updated daily or weekly.... someone would post a tech question and 20 different people would post a response within just a few hours. we'd have as many as a dozen discussion threads on a whole range of topics going on for weeks (or months) with at least a couple of dozen seriously unhinged enthusiasts giving their ideas of the 944 nirvana (in addition to all the rest of us lesser-experts).... hell, this thread would have been up to 200~300+ posts by now.
here's a simple tech question (posted a few months before Techno Duck finally decided
it'd be better to marry the prom queen and go V8) on the 944T forum exactly 2 years ago;
"Need help figuring this out; lean spot at ~3k rpm..."
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...at-3k-rpm.html
within a few days, T-Duck had a discussion with 115 responses (including his own).
still, it hadn't been but a few weeks sooner that one of the old timers with 26 rebuilds to his credit
was billowing on about the same where have all the good people gone topic (violins please)....
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...nnlist-jd.html
You know I was here in the old porschephiles days then came this Rennlist.com.
I gotta say man it just aint the same.
You come on here talking about building a 3.0 ltr motor with 500 hp evereryone responds.
LARGER TURBO SURE YOU WILL GET AROUND 50 RESPONSES.
I ask a simple question about what shims you guys use I got 1 answer.
when it was an e mail list at least everyone contributed including me.
Most people on here are generally helpful but man there are a sh*tload of **** holes on here.
sure, we had our normal steady stream of 944T cataclysms/owners getting thrown out of their homes/or worse—never to be heard from again.... but, even by this time, things gotten really bad, imo. seems like around late, 2010 and all through 2011~12, there was a critical mass of part outs of Turbo's and N/A cars too.... (to be fair, i suspect many of these were plucked from other people with non-running cars hanging around here or there)... at one point, the numbers of part outs got so bad, one of the contributors sent me a pm and said, "it looks like a junk car swap meet now. isn't going to be much of a car forum anymore if this keeps up...."
i got flamed for calling this friendly haven; the junk car swap meet,
but the truth is, i stole that one from one of our beloved 944 brothers.
on a bright note, seems there aren't as many 944Ts blowing up anymore. but I've also noted an increasing chorus of individuals advising caution about how much boost is too much, LOL. don't know if this is part of the reason but, we're not seeing somebody else's ride blowing up every few weeks (or days) like before.... but what about the other possibility; that we're finally running out of the 944Ts.... will Lart soon be cutting up Boxsters and Cayman's? ok, maybe not just yet, or perhaps the 968 will also be making a brief stop at Lart's house....
i'm beginning to wonder; are 944Ts and even n/a's (the ones actually running) becoming more rare? if these forums are any indication, 'maybe...' nowadays, when you post a question on either of the 944 forums, seems you're seeing only a small handful of responses. the same discussion threads that used to go on and on, now fall off the vine in a day or two. well, they haven't built any 944s in what, 22 years? i guess it was bound to happen eventually.
that being said, i'm pleased to see a few 944s at the Rolex 24 or PCA type event....
back in the day, the first-generation owners used them as disposable sports cars. i loved mine, but i can easily be included in that group.... i had one just past new.... after that, came the repeat owners, and serious enthusiasts....
a significant number of core enthusiasts saved the 944.... some of the projects were epic; people spent a small fortune, blew themselves up, and never returned. but even without the big explosions, the 944 can wear out even those most loyal to the brand in a relatively short time. many demonstrate full battle fatigue after they experience their second or third partial engine failure, or whatever.... I've seen their passion for the cars in their posts... they come in, they come back... but after a while we don't hear from them for awhile, and a few months later, they're posting a part out...
after recovering from extreme deprivation, some must be out there-driving the cheap knock offs; Genesis, Scion, G-37, etc... or even dull auto crap, those more fortunate riding Coxsters, 911s, or Cayennes.
it's great to see new owners coming in.
there's a reason why i inform these people about V8s. in a relatively short time period, an owner is likely to spend $10~12 k putting the cars on the road and daily driving them... that's a lot of capital on an engine that is just as likely to have a partial or total failure not far down the road.... i think a V8 swap represents the possibility to see 100,000~150,000 more miles on a typical Porsche engine maintenance budget.... not to mention the time the cars go off the road getting headgaskets, or swapping engines.
i believe the future of the 944 is linked to hot-rodding/max-bang-for-the-buck that you get with the Chevy V8.
not only are you treated to a car that has far fewer headaches, the performance upgrade is insane.
i believe getting involved with a 944 (due to dying electrical, headgaskets, rod bearings, etc) and 944T (a true semi-exotic) requires serious thinking;
and while we're on the topic of rod-bearings, who in God's name replaces the rod-bearings or spends the money to do so on a crappy 150 hp, 4 cylinder after spending thousands of dollars keeping the timing system going ??? come on man !! gotta really thank Porsche for that one... it took effort to design an engine so ridiculous !!
1. the local garage: there are fewer and fewer techs out there with 944T expertise.
2. getting help here (some might be sensing that that all is not well):
i agree. the reason we have this thread is mostly due to; attrition...
most of the brightest 944 minds are gone...
finally, some cherished thoughts from a few who figured out that it actually might be more fun to drive a car that also
only sells for $8~15 k, but also doesn't require being a technical genius to enjoy....
and they never looked back...
Background - Blown motor, second time in as many years, less than 10 hours on this engine. The last engine was a quality build, cannot point to the cause yet pending final disassembly. Long story short, two failures, two fires. The last failure caused me to spin off track at Madness, Mid Ohio. I was off track on the right, pointing uphill. The single flagger at that station did not wave the yellow for quite a while and I was hit by a 993 pretty hard bending both trumpets and damaging all front panels in front of the doors.
After some hard thought for a short time I decided to go the LS route. I know there is some interest here so I wanted to do build thread for the forum.
I started the disassembly as soon as I got home from the track. Engine, front suspension, front body panels were removed. The chassis went off to the fabricator to repair the damage to the trumpets. That repair was successful, returning all mounting points to factory specs.
Yesterday, I started the process of removing all unnecessary brackets, studs, sound deadening that will not be necessary for the LS build. I used a commercial bright white paint that is used for aircraft. It uses a catalyst for a chemical set.
I spent a lot of time reading the LS threads, talking to a number of Rennlist LS guys who have been and will continue to be indispensable for this project. Thanks!
After some hard thought for a short time I decided to go the LS route. I know there is some interest here so I wanted to do build thread for the forum.
I started the disassembly as soon as I got home from the track. Engine, front suspension, front body panels were removed. The chassis went off to the fabricator to repair the damage to the trumpets. That repair was successful, returning all mounting points to factory specs.
Yesterday, I started the process of removing all unnecessary brackets, studs, sound deadening that will not be necessary for the LS build. I used a commercial bright white paint that is used for aircraft. It uses a catalyst for a chemical set.
I spent a lot of time reading the LS threads, talking to a number of Rennlist LS guys who have been and will continue to be indispensable for this project. Thanks!
After much gut wrenching thought & strategizing I have decided to go a different route with my car. I had wanted to go to a 996 but after looking at the depressed race car market I knew I could not make a change by taking such a loss on the sale of my car. So I was pretty much relegated to keeping the car.
Now for the 2nd chapter of the 951, after looking at budget for building an awesome 3 liter turbo motor & having it done correctly I realized I could not afford to go that route & have to do it again & again. I decided NA is the way to go.
I contacted Scott @ Renegade hybrids who was quick to help with great advice. For the cost of that 3 liter motor & tuning I can do an LS1 swap. So that’s were we are doing. I drove one of Scott’s LS1's in Feb & it was a blast the LS1 looks like it belongs in the 944.
I put the kit on order. God willing everything will be here the beginning of Dec & the car will be ready for a test the 1st week of 2010. I’m switching NASA race classes from the German Touring Series to Super Touring next year. Ill be racing a few 355 Ferrari challenge cars a 360 Challenge & a C5 Vette I can’t wait! I will be limited to 8.7 to 1 HP to weight ratio.
Now for the 2nd chapter of the 951, after looking at budget for building an awesome 3 liter turbo motor & having it done correctly I realized I could not afford to go that route & have to do it again & again. I decided NA is the way to go.
I contacted Scott @ Renegade hybrids who was quick to help with great advice. For the cost of that 3 liter motor & tuning I can do an LS1 swap. So that’s were we are doing. I drove one of Scott’s LS1's in Feb & it was a blast the LS1 looks like it belongs in the 944.
I put the kit on order. God willing everything will be here the beginning of Dec & the car will be ready for a test the 1st week of 2010. I’m switching NASA race classes from the German Touring Series to Super Touring next year. Ill be racing a few 355 Ferrari challenge cars a 360 Challenge & a C5 Vette I can’t wait! I will be limited to 8.7 to 1 HP to weight ratio.
and a couple moaaa who think 180~190 mph might be kinda fun....
Every time I turn around, more and more guys are going with the LSx conversions on these cars.
The guys that have done it - give us a ballpark on what it costs - and if you can break it into a few catagories that would be good -
Donor Engine cost
Conversion parts cost
Labor cost
The guys that have done it - give us a ballpark on what it costs - and if you can break it into a few catagories that would be good -
Donor Engine cost
Conversion parts cost
Labor cost
circle of trust..... can i interest you in the F-355 Forum?
odurandina.
Last edited by odurandina; 02-25-2014 at 12:20 PM. Reason: added some links
06-28-2013, 07:27 PM
#50
Today I got
My Custom Title
Rennlist Member
My Custom Title
Rennlist Member
Odur, another long read, but I very much enjoyed it this time 
You hit every point spot on... Makes me sad, but even more so makes me want an ls944...
In 4+ years when I'm out of college, making real money, I was planning on buying a 951 because I've always thought it'd be fun to have a turbo car. Maybe I should just get a blown/burned 951 and make a 948... Hmmmmm
You hit every point spot on... Makes me sad, but even more so makes me want an ls944...
In 4+ years when I'm out of college, making real money, I was planning on buying a 951 because I've always thought it'd be fun to have a turbo car. Maybe I should just get a blown/burned 951 and make a 948... Hmmmmm
06-28-2013, 08:48 PM
#52
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
thanks...
that post should explain why i'm not one to take offense to the thread topic. rotting head gaskets, old computers/electrical gizmos/sensors/MAF designed during the Carter administration, wires, vacuum hoses -- all exposed to 25+ years of heat, cold, wet, dry, noxious corrosive fumes, etc... P-car dealers don't want anything to do with wrenching 944Ts/no-start 944 n/a's... you can bet Lart has a fairly solid impression of the numbers of 944Ts circulating about, getting restos, blown up, crashed, parted, etc....
yeah, Lart knows... but he ain't talking.
yeah, Lart knows... but he ain't talking.
"the story has stalled on us..."
"and you thought i'd help?"
"the story is dry... we've got a few pieces but we can't seem to figure out what the puzzle is supposed to look like...."
"forget the myths that the media has created.... the truth is these are not very bright guys,
and things got out of hand...."
"....supposedly, he's got a lawyer with 25,000 dollars in a brown paper bag...."
"follow the money."
"and you thought i'd help?"
"the story is dry... we've got a few pieces but we can't seem to figure out what the puzzle is supposed to look like...."
"forget the myths that the media has created.... the truth is these are not very bright guys,
and things got out of hand...."
"....supposedly, he's got a lawyer with 25,000 dollars in a brown paper bag...."
"follow the money."
06-28-2013, 11:23 PM
#54
Add me to the list of future v8 cars...
My heart wants to do a 968 3.0 swap, but the dependability of a v8 car is alluring. That said, all my repairs the last two years have not been engine related...
My heart wants to do a 968 3.0 swap, but the dependability of a v8 car is alluring. That said, all my repairs the last two years have not been engine related...
07-03-2013, 09:56 AM
#57
Three Wheelin'
What happened to Rennlist? Well, part of it is calling people who question some of this bull**** that is posted on here ********. Call someone an ******* and guess what, they don't want to help anymore. This place goes down the tubes and threads like this appear.
And by the way, I'm done on here. It *wasn't* fun while it lasted. I tried to help, but too many people were stuck in old ideologies and falsehoods. Some people think that they are in the 80's just because their car is and technology hasn't changed since. It reminds me of the old school carb down-graders/pride groups.
It also doesn't help that there are leghumpers and mob mentality either. Whatever. You guys deserve what you get with this cesspool of misinformation you call a forum. Try not to run the intelligent folk out next time.
And by the way, I'm done on here. It *wasn't* fun while it lasted. I tried to help, but too many people were stuck in old ideologies and falsehoods. Some people think that they are in the 80's just because their car is and technology hasn't changed since. It reminds me of the old school carb down-graders/pride groups.
It also doesn't help that there are leghumpers and mob mentality either. Whatever. You guys deserve what you get with this cesspool of misinformation you call a forum. Try not to run the intelligent folk out next time.
07-03-2013, 10:10 AM
#58
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
What happened to Rennlist? Well, part of it is calling people who question some of this bull**** that is posted on here ********. Call someone an ******* and guess what, they don't want to help anymore. This place goes down the tubes and threads like this appear.
And by the way, I'm done on here..... You guys deserve what you get with this cesspool of misinformation you call a forum. Try not to run the intelligent folk out next time.
wait wait come back he meant to add you to the list honest really he was gonna i tell ya.
and this might end up being the greatest thread evaar.
epic thread!!! 
