Cuda911

Hey all,

I'm looking at buying a 1986/1987 944 turbo. I looked very briefly at the car and will go back for some pix and additional details.

A bunch of Q's:

Let me start by saying that I don't know squat about 944s.

It's mostly built out for racing, adjustable front suspension, I forgot what exhaust it has, chipped, and a bunch of toys. Sport seats installed, but no 5-pt harness. No roll cage. Lightened rear end, rear seats removed. Some type of 3-piece wheels he says are $3,000 wheels. He will also throw in the original phone dials.

The car is owned by my local indy mechanic, so he's put a ton of work into it, full rebuild. He claims it's in great running condition. Body is in excellent condition. This seller is the guy that did the PPI for the last two Porsches I bought. He wants to sell it because he has a bunch of cars and wants to get rid of some to buy a 997.

It also comes with a spare engine that has been fully rebuilt from the ground up. The engine is on a stand in his shop.

There are also two large cardboard boxes full of misc parts that he claims are worth a few thousand. Maybe I could sell some to you good RL folks?

So, he wants 10K for everything. What do you think?

Would anyone here want to buy the spare engine? And how much is the engine worth? How does one even ship an engine?

He's just a couple miles from my house, so easy for me to go and get any add'l info. What all should I be asking the seller?

Final question: Are these cars money pits? Are they reasonably reliable? Are parts as insane in price as for my 996? I work a gazillion hours, so really don't have time to do my own maintenance.

Thank you in advance.

Mister Quickie

I too had a 996, bought a 944 Turbo, and work enough hours to prevent me from doing most DIY jobs, even the jobs I know I can do but just don't have time to.

Are the cars money pits? Everyone will give you the same "depends on the care, how it's been maintained, etc." answer that is 100% useless. My example: it passed the PPI with flying colors last July, now 9 months later, I've had to replace the battery, alternator, window seals, fuel lines, fuel tank, thermostat, oil pan, and oil separator.

There is nothing on the 944 Turbo that equals a 996 base. The deal sounds great thugh, I would keep the spare engine for were you ever to need it, you may not be able to buy one. They don't make those engines anymore and don't think an LS swap is going to be cheap with all the fabrication required.

I think the 944 Turbo is great if you have:
a) time to DIY it
b) tools, space to DIY it and
c) the experience/expertise to DIY it
d) the intention to keep it until it dies.

Otherwise, a 996.2 or higher 911 would be my choice. If you ever were to sell it, you will lose huge $ because there's so many in mint condish going for $10, or even less.

Cuda911

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated! I'm keeping my 996 and Cayman, so this would be in addition.

Good point on the engine, but I really don't have a place to store a spare engine.

Additional comments from others will be appreciated!

I'm thinking of maybe trying to offer 7K without the spare engine, but don't know if he will go for that. If I could sell the spare engine and misc parts to another RLer to break even (assuming I have to buy the spare and misc parts), that would be great. No idea what they sell for, or how hard they are hard to find. Again, the spare engine has just been fully rebuilt, all quality parts.

JimV8

They are money pits.

VirginiaF1

Howdy..
It would be a nice $10,000 project to buy the 951, the engine and the dozens of spare parts.. BUT ONLY if you have a trusted cousin/uncle/nephew/niece/brother/sister to manage the parts and engine sell for you and your busy schedule..

Having such a strong list in your signature line of nice rides ( plus the 987 & 996), I would love to read your driving/ownership impressions on a 951..

As far as the indy mech's description that "all is well..."
Did he detail the past 3 years of replaced belts, pumps, gaskets, etc on the car's engine? As you prolly researched, 951 rebuilt long blocks fetch at least ~ $2750.

My own suggestion for your situ is to tiptoe into 944 driving by paying $2,500-$3200 for an 8-valve 944/2 with recent belts, pumps, hoses, etc already done...

Yes, you give up 3 secs from 0-60;
you give up the racing suspension and the 146mph top end.
But the 51/49 weight balance and silky balance-shafted big4 will clearly be appreciated for a lot less coin and a lot fewer headaches..

Heck, if you hate it then you can certainly sell your 944/2 for what you invested.
If you love it, you can find a suitable 951 without the baggage.
Good Luck!
mikey

raleighBahn

they are terrific cars - handle and perform great. There is a very savvy community of owners with a very high level of sophistication and knowledge.. There are folks like josh at rogue tuning still producing innovative insight and products to increase enjoyment.

if it is not a daily driver and you want to learn DIY, it is a lot of fun. Likewise, if you have good income and don't DIY, also fun.

for this car, are you looking for a track car? If so, maybe better to find one that is all the way there (welded in roll cage, fire system, etc) - that costs money. You might be able to part out some of the extras to get well sorted track car. If you are not looking for track car, take the 10k and find a really good street car.

either way, despite his mechanical ability, you need to independently inspect the car from someone in the area who knows 944s. Check this board and PCA.

lart951

lol, is this Dennis 86? money Pitts, but a proper moded 951 will put to shame the 996 c2 and even the c4s no sweat.

lart951

second you are in wrong forum, you need to go here

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...bo-s-forum-72/

Cuda911

Thanks for the additional comments. Yes, I'm looking at this 951 as a track car. Nothing major, a few big-track DE's per year. Also, since I hear they are great fun to drive, maybe I'll use it more as a daily driver, since I really rack up the miles on my 996.

A buddy of mine just picked up a very nice 944 a few weeks ago (non-turbo), and he says it's a blast to drive but low power, so that's why the 951 is more attractive to me... a bit more ooomph. He also has a Boxster, a 964, and a RUF 911. He got the 944 for $5k (1986, about 75,000 miles). The 951 I'm looking at may have a fire suppression system... I saw a fire extinguisher attached inside, but I was in a hurry, so didn't check it out in more detail to see if it has a "proper" extinguisher system installed. No roll cage though.

I've read tons of posts in the 944 forums here, and it seems like many (most?) owners are a pretty hands-on bunch when it comes to servicing their cars. I don't mind spending an average of maybe a couple thousand a year at the indy for repairs, if that's what it takes. But, I wouldn't want to spend much more than that.

Re: Yeah, that's my concern... having a pile of parts sitting around forever since I don't have time to sort through and list it all on eBay, etc. No one here really to help out with that.

I thought maybe I'd take some pix of the parts and post here on RL to see if there was anyone wanting parts at very good prices.

I was looking at a VERY nice fully built out 944 (non-turbo) a few months ago for about $10K, but it wasn't street legal. I'd really like one that is a "hybrid" so that I can use it on track and street.

EDIT: Coincidence: A few minutes ago, someone just emailed me a link to that same car. Looks like it's for sale again:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ted-socal.html

I'll try and get more info on the car soon. Any of you 944/951 gurus up in North County San Diego?

I read through the "What did you pay for your 944?" thread... seems like a lot of you picked 'em up for less than $5k, but I couldn't tell if they were in reasonably good shape, or if they needed cash infusions to bring 'em up to snuff.

Mister Quickie

I have a 951 w/170k miles on the engine and although it's running great, if you were local I'd definitely buy your engine, but I've had torrid experiences $hipping cars/parts back and forth tho

black944 turbo

I can tell you several things about a 951.
1st, all of them will in some way end up being a $10k car (by mods, repairs, or general upkeep that has lacked in the past)
2nd A very clean and well kept 951 is more than $10k despite what people on this board will say.
3rd I have driven 996s, 997s, 930s, 965s, etc.... and feel that the 951 is much more forgiving and in many ways (for its age) more refined. It is a great car with great handling.

Reliability is what you make it. If you fix every little thing when it pops up then they can be great, however they can nickle and dime you (they are very old). If you don't repair it regularly than they can become a real horror.

catamount

First and foremost, you are thinking about a 27-28 year old car. Even the best examples with outstanding PPIs will have things arise. We all know that some issues, no matter what car it is, happen without warning. So, go into it knowing that even if the car has been meticulously maintained, stuff will break, will go wrong, will fail.

A go-to site for any 944/951 owner is Clark's Garage, http://clarks-garage.com/. There is a TON of information there including a buyer's guide.

Cuda911

Thanks for the additional comments.

Re:

After spending a bunch of time on eBay, Car Gurus, etc., I sure didn't see any low mileage 951's that were less than that, so I would agree, based on what is currently on the market. Odd, I really couldn't find any local 944/951 for sale around here (San Diego).

Re:

Yes, certainly. Not being very familiar with the 944/951 I wasn't sure if there are any specific key things to watch out for, or is it more just that with any older car, miscellaneous things can arise.

So far, I haven't heard anyone chomping at the bit for the spare engine or misc. parts, so maybe these have less value/interest than I was guessing.

Maybe, as others have mentioned, I'd do best to just bide my time until a clean one pops up for sale. I'm in no rush to buy one, but would like to get one if the right car presents itself.

Also, I know that the seller's car has been sitting for awhile and that he has no intention of driving it, so maybe as it "ages" in his parking lot his price will come down. I'd be super comfortable at $6k, since I know I will have to put some $$ into it. Much more than that, and I not sure it's a smokin' deal. Was hoping the spare engine and parts would offset that, but I guess not, based on the feedback from you guys.

goatfarmerdave

Thing with a so called "totally rebuilt" spare engine is that so many guys have been burned with stuff that people say " running perfect" or "just rebuilt".Then they buy them and they are crap. I think the saying goes" the rebuild is as good as the guy rebuilding it". Especially if he is rebuilding it for sale…or is he rebuilding it for himself.Big difference on care and what parts went to the inside of the engine.

raleighBahn

Mileage is not a good gauge gauge for these, as all of them have odometer issues. You will want to do the checklist here or in Clarks. Compression and leak - down and etc. If you are looking to do some track the 951 is outstanding - very well behaved and will bail you out when you reach the limits of your ability. You will eat many newer porsches for lunch and hurt some feelings.