SpeedyC2

I visited CMP for a weekend about a month ago now for a weekend DE with the Carolinas Region PCA. I have always enjoyed the track, and this was my first time there with the S2.

The car is well suited to the track, IMO, with power and torque coming on in the right places. Of course, I am the limiting factor but I had a great time!

I did seem to experience a bit of brake fade at the end of some of my sessions (only when I had an instructor in the car), which I have not experienced before. Fluid was fresh, the pads (stock) were pretty thin. Again, I'm sure it was more to do with my skills, or lack thereof, than some failing of the brakes themselves. CMP is known for being tough on brakes with several hard braking zones spaced close together.

I'm trying to stay stock with the car until I get better at this, but I'm thinking some brake ducts wouldn't hurt anything. They seem easy to install and are not crazy expensive. I may also "refurbish" the calipers with new seals, etc. They are 23 years old, after all...

Attached are some pics. The car does roll a bit, but it sure goes around a turn well!

9turbo51

Brake cooling is great but you realy need to go to better pads and fluid. Stock won't work.

jpk

CMP is really tough on brakes. When I ran there with the 968, I ran the first session with Hawk black pads (which are fine for Roebling and up here at Waterford Hills). It was pretty evident they weren't enough for CMP. Luckily, I had been warned and had a new set of Hawk blues with me. I was able to swap them out before the second session and was much happier, but even then, I did notice they'd fade a bit later in the sessions. Cooling scoops would help (the 968 has them, not sure if the S2 does) but really, you need a pad that can better handle the temps.

edit - I brake late and hard, so I'm pretty tough on the pads. You might want to just step up to something like the Hawk blacks and see how they work for you. There are a lot of other good options out there; I've been running carbotech pads lately and they have a good range of compounds.

harveyf

Which brings back memories of the guy with the Nissan 350Z changing his brake pads in the parking lot of the Executive Inn in Kershaw on Saturday night because his buddy in another 350Z had his brakes totally go down to the backing plates before he reached the end of the their first day at CMP.

car_slave

Get some track pads. Castrol SRF brake fluid is probably the best stuff out out there - not cheap. ATE TYP200 or the blue stuff (same with blue dye) is alright too, but you'll want to bleed your brakes more. I always bring a bleeder with me.

white924s

Nice pictures! My first track event of the season is next week, I can't wait!

SpeedyC2

I use ATE fluid, which seems to hold up fine for my uses. A set of track pads may well be in order. I've heard good things about PFC and Hawk.

I do bring a bleeder with me to the track, just in case.

67King

ATE is a sufficient DE fluid, but there is better stuff out there. Plus if you buy the blue, it freakin' stains EVERYTHING (and also isn't street legal for some reason due to the dye, but I've never heard of anyone either heeding that or having any issue with it).

I had the SRF in my car last year, but three things are keeping me out of it this year. First, the cost. Second, the packaging (i.e. 1L bottles). Third, less expensive stuff is used by more demanding cars. To elaborate:
1. I'm not afraid to spend money where it is worth it. The SRF is nice because it doesn't degrade when it gets wet. But, it is over twice as much as most fluids that give the same dry performance, but maintain decent performance when wet. And when you factor in the next fact, the cost goes up even more......
2. 1L gives you no real room for error when you completely flush a system. And when you bleed them, you have to open another full 1L bottle, which will then be no good in a year, and you won't likely go through an entire bottle in a year just from bleeding them periodically. 500ml bottles are MUCH more convenient. 3 500ml bottles is probably sufficient for the year, but it takes 2 1L bottles, so it is $50-60 versus $160.
3. The stuff we sell, Millers Racing Brake Fluid 300+ (which is the same stuff as Motul RBF 600, Stop Tech, and many others who buy it from the supplier and just brand it their way) was tested by Bryan Herta in their Indycars, as they have a tech partnership wtih Millers for gear oil. They were completely happy with it, and have switched over to it (yeah, I know the cars are lighter, but speeds are MUCH greater). At $17-20 depending on where you source it, it is a much more cost effective solution. Obviously I'm biased so I'd tell you to buy from me, but the larger point isn't where to get it, or which branding to use, it is just to look at that brake fluid as a good, cost effective option.

I would ABSOLUTELY rebuild your calipers, and if you haven't done it, yet, replace your brake lines with stainless steel ones. You might want to replace every rubber component in your hydraulic system, unfortunately that includes the master cylinder since they can't be rebuilt, but also the clutch lines, and rebuild both the clutch master and slave (not nearly as critical as the brake side of the resivoir, though). I had done everything but the master cylinder, and lost my brakes going into Turn 1 at Road Atlanta, which is probably a 120MPH turn? Was NOT fun. Turned out the master cylinder was bad.

Hawk Blues are a really good DE pad. Not as much for club racing, the DTC 60's are good for those. Actually, I may have some extra nearly new Blues. If interested, I can check. If you'd like some feedback from some good places that are also dealers, call Karl at Racer's Edge - lots of 944's over the years and is a Hawk dealer, Linda or Clark at Apex Performance - I know Clark has had a 968 for many years, not sure what else, and they are Performance Friction and Pagid dealers. Ron at Discovery is also a GREAT resource, and is a Hawk dealer - races a 240Z but still knows a lot about brakes for Porsches.

harveyf

I would suggest you give Jason a call at Paragon Products and discuss appropriate pad choices for dual street and track use. There is a lot of good info at the StopTech website. I wanted to understand the "bedding" process, which was explained very well. One "take-away" message for me is that bedding includes building up a layer of pad material on the rotor. I have wondered if you for instance changed to a track pad just for a track weekend and then back to a street pad after the track weekend how much this would disrupt the bedding process. The answer for me is easy. Track pads on my track car. No street use. For you, you might want to get a dual use pad. I also sprang for a set of new front rotors when I put on the new track pads at the beginning of this season. Stebro slotted as carried by Paragon.

Last year I rebuilt the calipers and installed teflon/braided hoses. I put in a new steel master cylinder. So with the exception of the steel lines, the system is pretty much brand new.

At this point, the brakes will lock up my street tires so more braking force is not really needed. I use the ATE fluid (blue and clear). I have never had any fade problems, even in July weather. I change out the brake fluid within 45 days, which gets me through a couple of track weekends. I have never had a need to bleed at the track, although like you I like to carry my power bleeder with me just in case.

I am going to be rebuilding the calipers of my 2nd track car one weekend soon. Since you live nearby, you might want to come out and watch.

Gramps47

If you are driving your S2 to the track, I would not be using an aggressive racing pad such as the Hawk Blues or even the Blacks for that matter. And do not switch back and forth on the pads unless you are also willing to change the rotors. There are options out there for a good street/track pad such as the Hawk HP's.

We use Castrol LMA brake fluid in our racing Miatas. Great value and never have had an issue with brake fade. Learning to use brakes properly in a track environment is one of the most important skills to develop. And it does take time. Flying in and jumping on the brakes is extremely unsettling to the car. Fast times generally go to theses who are first on the throttle, not last on the brakes.

Above all else, have fun...you never know where these DE's can take you. Maybe even to the slippery slope of wheel to wheel racing! It's exactly what happened to me.

StoogeMoe

Dual use pads won't work. When you go to the track, put the race pads in. When you're done, switch back to street pads.

I do this all the time, at least six to eight times a year. You don't need to change rotors. There's a small adjustment period until the pad material beds into the rotor. This is most noticeable when going from the track to the street pads. You need to be aware of the decreased stopping power.

You can drive to the track with the track pads in. You just have to be a little cautious when they're cold. They still provide decent stopping power, just not at the level when they're hot. Again, be aware.

SpeedyC2

It would be great to take you up on the offer, schedule permitting.

Thank you.

Dino V

Nice shots, thanks for sharing!