acorad

Just did my first race w/a V8, it was a built '65 Mustang. Endurance race (14 hours) with 3 other drivers. I've raced a fair amount previously, always with much smaller much less torquey engines. After a few laps with the V8 it was clear that there was no need to shift out of 3rd gear at all, as I could easily spin the rears in any turn in 3rd. The other 3 guys on my team felt like they just had to shift. I had the lowest lap times by a good margin...

blown 944

Rob, first off, I have never said I would run in the 10's.. I don't believe it is easily possible with a regular street car.

I do get what you are saying in regards to a limiting capacity due to airflow. That really isn't the case though in regards to how I drive/race my car. I push it hard to get good 60' times which puts a lot more stress on the drive train. Elevation is irrelevant here.

I would agree with you if I were limiting myself to very low boost to take it easy on the engine etc.... Bit that is not the case. I have always pushed the envelope in regards to cranking it up. I will again with this engine, I just havnt had to or felt the need to yet. But to put a direct comparison to it: I could run say 22 psi up here to make 500 hp (which I have tested around with) but I could take it down to sea level and run 18 and still make great power. How much I could push it at sea level is yet to be determined, but I will find out at some point.

The point is, that if I can make good power up here and maintain reliability...I could do it easier at low elevation die to many factors ie; crossover pressure(detonation helper), cooking inefficiency, also just the fact I have to actually come out on boost to get good launches...when I come down from the track (about a 500-1000ft DA difference) I can feel a significant power increase off boost.

This is what I see regularly.. There really isn't a limiter other than stupidity by trying to crank it up when you don't have to .... I've been there..

LS1Porch

Again, blown 944, your entire argument hinges around beating an LS at your elevation. Do you really think anyone cares about your elevation?

And there you have it, you "think" your combo could handle 500hp. I'm sure that's amazing for a 20-year-old motor that you did a budget build on, but if you think it's going to keep ALL the LS motors at bay, you've got another think coming (or at least, i'd hope so...but "thinking" seems to come secondary to "talking" in your case....).

Your car seems to make good power for what it is, and i've already said i wouldn't suggest a motor swap for the majority of 944 owners, but if you think 500hp is going to blow anyone away around here you're sadly mistaken. I've ridden in Hondas with half the displacement making more power.

CyCloNe!

the battle has begun!... Mortal Kombat!!

Any who I can understand Sid's frustration, the 951 motor is a great motor with lots of potential, I mean really in stock form many have gotten 325-350 whp with medium mods out of a 4 cylinder. Sid has done what many haven't with these motors; think outside the box. He made a 2.9l so affordable with great power potential that honestly we would be foolish not to do it. The 3l engine's can rake up 8-10k easy so by making Sid's hybrid we can have similar output at a faction of the cost. More smiles per mile.

The reason I am interested in the v8 is not because I think its better than the 4cylinder, I'm interested in the longevity and the removal of electronics. I work in a Autopart store and I get tired of all these cars with sensors and running off of so much computer technology. The 944 isn't too bad on these items but I like things simple, I plan to keep this car for another 20 years. These cars are 25+ years old, at some point these parts will be hard to find, many are no longer available new, so if and when that time comes I want to be sure I will have it still running.

Even if I do put a v8 in I would still want to keep the 951 motor and to a v8 swap that I can still swap back easily for the simple fact of being able to go original.

arthropraxis

I was wondering what he had done to his motor that was different than the 3L stroker motor. When my 944 came to me there was a thought to do a 3L turbo motor, until price came up. Used LS motors are disposable compared to a 3L's price.
I never got to drive the 944 prior to the swap. The V8 torque is fun on the street, there is so much useable torque in every gear.
FWIW, one of my neighbors endurance raced a 951 in South Africa. He drove my car and loved it. His comment when he came back from his drive was "this is how Porsche should have made it to begin with."

CyCloNe!

My old neighbor got me into the 951.. He had a guards red 951S with a qouted 500hp at the crank highly modified, that car was a monster after riding in it at only 18psi I decided I wanted one of these cars, he usually had boost at 25psi. I've got a few pics of it if anyone wants to see them.

CyCloNe!

If anyone is around the Va Beach area that has a v8 swap I would love to ride in it. As I said though if I do a v8 swap it will be carbed and a 350 or 383, no LS motor (nothing personal) but wish to remove all the sensor stuff. I would carb an LS motor but it would sit waaaay too high and be more expensive than I desire, the v8 swap would be a budget build to see how cheap it can really be done.

blown 944

Chris,

I'll keep this civil because everyone deserves that. My apologies for coming off so harshly initially.. I was jsut tired of seeing the same thing said over and over again without dispute..

My argument is not based around elevation, It just so happens that is where I am. I don't care if it is up here or at sea level honestly. The only thing I will note is that I can crank it up, up here whereas in an NA setup an LS owner cannot. You have already posted a video of a supercharged LS car drag racing and he is at low elevation. I am quite a bit faster than that even up here, so the elevation point is moot. Now don't take that wrong, there can be/are cars way faster than mine but in a 944 chassis, most of the advantages are lost.

I already handle 500hp by most any dyno as I have already achieved over 430 true rwhp using the 1/4 mile mph. There is also much more left in it. (Read down further to see how our engines are similiar and why it will be reliable)

I just happen to think it is a viable option compared to a swap...

Here is why it is stronger than a std 944 engine and how it is similar.

Sleeved...cast iron sleeves that will noit score like the aluminum....Like LS

filled block to keep cylinders from walking..Helps to eliminate HG issues yet retaining coolong capability

Forged lightweight Chevy pistons...helps to keep rods and bearings in tact..Like LS

H beam rods....Lighter and stronger than factory...Like LS builds

Cometic HG......Much stronger than composite...Like LS

Coated small journal race bearings...Help Oiling issues in comparison to factory...Like NASCAR builds.

NON interference valvetrain...eliminates costly timing belt issues


Looking at it there is really no difference between the moving parts of this engine and an LS engine in regards to friction areas so It should last in a similar fashion.

The one thing I do wish I had that the LS has is the head design. A cathedral port design would do wonders...so I' am stuck with either a low flowing 8v or doing a 16valve.

So IMO the point is, everyone should be happy with what they have chosen to do with their car. It should not be force fed that one design is the only way to go. You can make power out of anything, and you can also make anything reliable, if you put enough thought and effort into it. Sometimes you just have to step out of the "normal" way of doing things.


I'd venture to say that I am probably the hardest on my DD car out of anyone I've seen post on this forum. I drive it in any condition, redline it at high boost at least 4 times a day, and I race it weekly and I race it hard. Hell, most guys can't go to the strip, or launching one time without breaking a ton of parts I have ran over 60 passes this year alone. All the while sharing what works and doesn't work ie: axles, trans brace, 2 step etc.. It is all meant to help others to be able to enjoy their cars if they choose to launch them hard. I also prefer using the old school method of movement, distance and acceleration to determining HP (drag strip) over a dyno as they can be all over the place.



Anyway...enough of the typing, I'm going out to rip on my car a little more...Because it's FUN

333pg333

They did. It was called the 928. Porsche made it's name with nimble, excellent handling cars often with small engines. What they should have done is a 3L 16v turbo, but that would have not fitted into the heirarchy of the Porsche lineup as it would have shown up all the rest of the models with ease.

333pg333

Well yes and no. You have to thank them for building the 924/944 models too. Without them, there'd be no company. To add, this was 1970's technology / design also. To put the turbo on the 'right' side wouldn't have been easy with the motor designed as it is. A complete redesign would have been needed and I doubt they were ever going to pour that amount of money into it, especially as we've discussed, it would have eclipsed the 911 by a mile. nb: I've got nothing against the 911s either.

Cole

You guys always seem to think this is about building cars when it's really about selling cars!

If Porsche thought they could sell more they would have built it! This was the era where Porsche was still wanting another platform to run with or replace the aging 911. If they thought a turbo 968 would sell more than a 911 and make the company more profit they would have done it!

But when you look at the sales numbers you can easily see that the interest in the 944/951/968 chassis cars had taken a steep dive. Partly due to the economy and partly due to a limited number of " Porsche Buyers" simply preferring the 911.

You can easily see how the sales of the 968 wee pretty lack luster, which did not justify simply making a "faster one"! They needed something that would attract more buyers. Wich they found with the 911-esq Boxter.

Total world 944 Production 113,070(not counting S2)
Total world 951 production 25,245
Total world 968 production 12,776

Here is one example from the 911 line for the same era.(this is just 1983-1989 cars)
Total production of the 911 3.2 Carrera series was 76,473 cars (35,670 coupé, 19,987 cabrio, 18,468 targa).[10]

Jersey951

Ls na constant power band no lag. No one is running a big enough turbo to not have lag. The 944 came with an i4. It's he heart of the car. Ur chose to change it or not.

333pg333

...errr....huh...???

Reimu

Nothing, nothing at all

Dubai944

Makes sense....you have to get one of those really big turbos then you won't have any lag.