Aftermarket 944 Control arms. Retail pricing seems a bit off...
12-08-2008, 12:55 PM
#166
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Is there a 19mm pin alternative for the early style ball joints? I know rennbay offers a 19mm rebuild kit for the late style arms (also requires opening up the hole in the spindle from 17mm to 19mm, of course).
What I'm getting at is this would be a limitation of Chad's proposed design, whereas if it were designed to use the late style ball joints, a racer could choose to use the rennbay 19mm kit. Yes, they can fail as well, but 19 > 17, so it will fail less often.
Chad, don't take offense. I like your design; just a little devil's advocate coming out.
What I'm getting at is this would be a limitation of Chad's proposed design, whereas if it were designed to use the late style ball joints, a racer could choose to use the rennbay 19mm kit. Yes, they can fail as well, but 19 > 17, so it will fail less often.
Chad, don't take offense. I like your design; just a little devil's advocate coming out.
Simple version - if we have a replaceable joint, we simply need to order joints with the appropriate pins/pin lengths to spec.
Sky is the limit. we simply need to find the appropriate replaceable ball joint manufacturer.
Some of you guys are over thinking this. Here is a rule for engineering/design/manufacturing. The K.I.S.S. method.
Keep It Simple, Stupid
Works every time. Be patient folks. As previsouly mentioned. The image shown was Version 1. We are now on Version 3. What you are making a point about was discussed at length many moons ago.
C.
12-08-2008, 01:30 PM
#167
Rennlist Member
None taken.
Simple version - if we have a replaceable joint, we simply need to order joints with the appropriate pins/pin lengths to spec.
Sky is the limit. we simply need to find the appropriate replaceable ball joint manufacturer.
Some of you guys are over thinking this. Here is a rule for engineering/design/manufacturing. The K.I.S.S. method.
Keep It Simple, Stupid
Works every time. Be patient folks. As previsouly mentioned. The image shown was Version 1. We are now on Version 3. What you are making a point about was discussed at length many moons ago.
C.
Simple version - if we have a replaceable joint, we simply need to order joints with the appropriate pins/pin lengths to spec.
Sky is the limit. we simply need to find the appropriate replaceable ball joint manufacturer.
Some of you guys are over thinking this. Here is a rule for engineering/design/manufacturing. The K.I.S.S. method.
Keep It Simple, Stupid
Works every time. Be patient folks. As previsouly mentioned. The image shown was Version 1. We are now on Version 3. What you are making a point about was discussed at length many moons ago.
C.
Cool, glad you're open to other options.
I think you might have wheel/tire clearance issues with your rev 1 design. I have not looked under the car to see how close my wheels get to the a-arms when I turn the wheel lock to lock, but your design appears to make a much straighter shot between the ball joint and rear mount than the oem design. Something to consider...
12-08-2008, 01:59 PM
#168
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Cool, glad you're open to other options.
I think you might have wheel/tire clearance issues with your rev 1 design. I have not looked under the car to see how close my wheels get to the a-arms when I turn the wheel lock to lock, but your design appears to make a much straighter shot between the ball joint and rear mount than the oem design. Something to consider...
I think you might have wheel/tire clearance issues with your rev 1 design. I have not looked under the car to see how close my wheels get to the a-arms when I turn the wheel lock to lock, but your design appears to make a much straighter shot between the ball joint and rear mount than the oem design. Something to consider...
We....are.....on.....version.......3
Just stop now. You're going to hurt yourself. We are already there.
C.
12-08-2008, 02:40 PM
#169
Rennlist Member
EDIT:
Chad: Aftermarket a-arms are too expensive. I challenge any shop to make a more affordable a-arm!
Me: Ok, I'll give it a shot.
Chad: No, wait. I want to do it now.
Me: Ok, go ahead.
Chad: Here's our design. Isn't it great!
Us: No, not really. You have this problem and that problem.
Chad: Oh, well that wasn't REALLY our design. I can't show you our REAL design yet, but we already fixed those problems. (scribbles down ideas to put in the real design)
Last edited by vt951; 12-08-2008 at 03:43 PM.
12-08-2008, 03:02 PM
#170
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
At no time have I said or implied any of that. You simply did not READ what I have written...over, and over, and over...
You know what....here. Take it. Build it. You seem to want everyone else to think of the solution for you and not do the work/research yourself. Heck, I was even looking into possibly making this a forged piece at one time. But nevermind....Go make it happen smart guy. I'm done. If it's cheap...I will buy it.
I do not have the time in the day to jerk off with this thing anymore. christ...
C.
NOTES: Version 3 is not rendered. Ver3 is the frame as shown but accommodates for a custom spherical bearing housing and reduces the amount of plate at the outer most point of the arm. Go figure out the rest on your own.
12-08-2008, 03:27 PM
#171
Rennlist Member
You seriously think someone wants to steal your design and sell it? Dude, get over yourself. There is not enough money to be made on this to make it worthwhile, and your design is not exactly earth shattering anyway.
12-08-2008, 03:31 PM
#172
Rennlist Member
12-08-2008, 03:37 PM
#173
Rennlist Member
I work for a company that makes forged titanium parts for aircraft engines (among other things). While forged a-arms would certainly be the ultimate, I can say with a fair degree of certainty that you would never recoup your investment in forging dies on this small quantity and low price tag.
12-08-2008, 04:38 PM
#174
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
This is laughable. Again...not a single bit of what you wrote was said or even implied. YOU are the one saying this. I could really give a crap what happens with this, to be quite honest. This whole thread was not about making them. Just questioning the pricing.
A control arm on its own is not an earth shattering development. It is a component that has been around in the automotive world for almost 100 years.
Congrats on the aerospace industry bit.
Go have your wife's brother's cousin's former roommate weld this thing up and get back to us. I have already given this to A&M motorsports fabrication in the Philadelphia area. There is a Rennlister (Chris) who works for them and is interested in fabricating the arms.
I have also given it to John Hajny and J3 Motorsports here in GA. I am sure each of them will come up with something.
12-08-2008, 05:00 PM
#176
Rennlist Member
BAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is laughable. Again...not a single bit of what you wrote was said or even implied. YOU are the one saying this. I could really give a crap what happens with this, to be quite honest. This whole thread was not about making them. Just questioning the pricing.
A control arm on its own is not an earth shattering development. It is a component that has been around in the automotive world for almost 100 years.
Congrats on the aerospace industry bit.
Go have your wife's brother's cousin's former roommate weld this thing up and get back to us. I have already given this to A&M motorsports fabrication in the Philadelphia area. There is a Rennlister (Chris) who works for them and is interested in fabricating the arms.
I have also given it to John Hajny and J3 Motorsports here in GA. I am sure each of them will come up with something.
This is laughable. Again...not a single bit of what you wrote was said or even implied. YOU are the one saying this. I could really give a crap what happens with this, to be quite honest. This whole thread was not about making them. Just questioning the pricing.
A control arm on its own is not an earth shattering development. It is a component that has been around in the automotive world for almost 100 years.
Congrats on the aerospace industry bit.
Go have your wife's brother's cousin's former roommate weld this thing up and get back to us. I have already given this to A&M motorsports fabrication in the Philadelphia area. There is a Rennlister (Chris) who works for them and is interested in fabricating the arms.
I have also given it to John Hajny and J3 Motorsports here in GA. I am sure each of them will come up with something.
Truce. I'm good. Are you good?
I'm glad you found somebody to make these. I'm not sure if my wife's brother's cousin's former roommate is still interested anyway.
12-08-2008, 05:02 PM
#177
Nordschleife Master
12-08-2008, 05:04 PM
#179
Nordschleife Master
12-08-2008, 05:15 PM
#180
Rennlist Member
Sounds to me like it still might, unless the shops that Chad mentioned aren't really going to produce his design. I just don't think there's enough room for 2 more competitors in this tiny market.
I'm still planning to work through my own design/analysis, and if nobody else is making headway then I'll see about getting it made (hopefully by my bro-in-law).