brand new 20 years old 944TS
12-09-2007, 02:44 AM
#61
Race Director
12-09-2007, 02:55 AM
#63
Burning Brakes
From what little I could decipher from the receipt, it looks to me that the stuff was just regular maintenance. There is certainly alot that I can't read but I can make out replace all rollers,water pump,oil filter. I would assume it to be just maintenance, but we all know what assume means!
12-09-2007, 02:57 AM
#65
Race Car
My early 87 turbo (non S) has a 180mph speedo.
So your 87 has a 180 MPH speedo? Here's one that doesn't:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/944sd...QQcmdZViewItem
Since we're talking about a hard and fast rule here, then I'll assume your 87 does not have an original speedo and was switched out with an 88 or later...
Has it had a speedo change? Maybe. Is it possible that an 88 with the Turbo S option had a 160 MPH speedo? Absolutely. Why did my old 83 944 come without door script panels and no carpeting around the shifter? Why did the factory list a "touring package" (nearly $2K option) on the window stickers of a plethora of 1986 951s and then not provide an option number for it (or a designation telling what it included) in any factory literature? Stranger things have happened.
As I said before, it would be very easy to check on a change - have a look at the factory service stamps inside the booklet... look at mileage from the invoices... talk to the original owner(s). Call this guy and dig a little deeper.... (this has all been discussed before, BTW – we’re not doing anything new).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=364513
An A/C conversion doesn't matter. Details like the fact that it also has over-the-shoulder rear belts - which I've only seen on Turbo S optioned 88s (it was standard for 89 cars), do. I would bet there are split-fold rear seats lurking in there as well. I do believe it is a genuine Turbo S. I also believe it may have had something done with regards to the speedo. Do I think we can say anything intelligent regarding its present condition or past treatment from these pictures (other than the P-haus receipt....)?
No.
Micah
So your 87 has a 180 MPH speedo? Here's one that doesn't:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/944sd...QQcmdZViewItem
Since we're talking about a hard and fast rule here, then I'll assume your 87 does not have an original speedo and was switched out with an 88 or later...
Has it had a speedo change? Maybe. Is it possible that an 88 with the Turbo S option had a 160 MPH speedo? Absolutely. Why did my old 83 944 come without door script panels and no carpeting around the shifter? Why did the factory list a "touring package" (nearly $2K option) on the window stickers of a plethora of 1986 951s and then not provide an option number for it (or a designation telling what it included) in any factory literature? Stranger things have happened.
As I said before, it would be very easy to check on a change - have a look at the factory service stamps inside the booklet... look at mileage from the invoices... talk to the original owner(s). Call this guy and dig a little deeper.... (this has all been discussed before, BTW – we’re not doing anything new).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=364513
An A/C conversion doesn't matter. Details like the fact that it also has over-the-shoulder rear belts - which I've only seen on Turbo S optioned 88s (it was standard for 89 cars), do. I would bet there are split-fold rear seats lurking in there as well. I do believe it is a genuine Turbo S. I also believe it may have had something done with regards to the speedo. Do I think we can say anything intelligent regarding its present condition or past treatment from these pictures (other than the P-haus receipt....)?
No.
Micah
I'll back away slowly if you promise to lay off the coffee
I was just pointing out a couple of other things and trying to justify why everybody is throwing such a fit over this. I'm not on that bandwagon, I was just prodding the fire.
BTW, my cluster is original and my car is a non-s from the early-mid 87 MY, but thanks for asking
12-09-2007, 03:31 AM
#67
Race Car
haha I think this horse is dead.
Think about it, you are selling a 9200 mile 951... you want to impress people.
Let's replace the coolant tank, it's old and yellow. Hmm, tires are rotted, let's update those so people can drive the thing. Refrigerant has leaked out, let's repair the system and update to R134A so people can be comfortable.
The rusty 'screw' is actually a washer. Looking around the interior of my car every single one of those washers has started to rust. None of them look to have been treated in any way, just plain steel washers. 20 years of exposure to the air just might cause them to rust.
I am not convinced that this is a 9200 mile car, but there is a believable explanation to everything that people are picking on. Personally I'm hung up on the cluster but I have no intention of buying the car, and I doubt a single person on here does either. So let's spend our time wrenching and making our own cars better and forget about it. Perhaps even involve a nice cold beer. (Can you tell I've been at work way too long?!)
Think about it, you are selling a 9200 mile 951... you want to impress people.
Let's replace the coolant tank, it's old and yellow. Hmm, tires are rotted, let's update those so people can drive the thing. Refrigerant has leaked out, let's repair the system and update to R134A so people can be comfortable.
The rusty 'screw' is actually a washer. Looking around the interior of my car every single one of those washers has started to rust. None of them look to have been treated in any way, just plain steel washers. 20 years of exposure to the air just might cause them to rust.
I am not convinced that this is a 9200 mile car, but there is a believable explanation to everything that people are picking on. Personally I'm hung up on the cluster but I have no intention of buying the car, and I doubt a single person on here does either. So let's spend our time wrenching and making our own cars better and forget about it. Perhaps even involve a nice cold beer. (Can you tell I've been at work way too long?!)
12-09-2007, 10:15 AM
#70
Lazer Beam Shooter
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I hope that guy gets every dime and more for that beautiful car.
Nuff said.
Cheapass people sitting here wondering if the car is legit or not
what have we become rennlist!?
Nuff said.
Cheapass people sitting here wondering if the car is legit or not
what have we become rennlist!?
12-09-2007, 10:39 AM
#71
Addic
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
i've had vehicles that have had mix and match / leftover parts before, i wouldnt care how many miles are on that thing, more details suggest it is nicer then the majority of other 951's out there, and would win against most cars on the list at a concours event.
I see people selling cars for that price in worse condition, or obviously modified, so whatever. If they would take kidneys i'de get the car so you could all envy my vehicle.
And i would screw it up even more and put a splitter on it
I see people selling cars for that price in worse condition, or obviously modified, so whatever. If they would take kidneys i'de get the car so you could all envy my vehicle.
And i would screw it up even more and put a splitter on it
12-09-2007, 11:02 AM
#73
Burning Brakes
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Maybe less envy than prurient obsession at this point. Despite their large production numbers compared to other Porsche models, relatively few 951s were tucked away in hermetically sealed bubbles. Of those that were, many of those owners decided they weren't going to live long enough to see the market reward their patience and have moved their cars back into the marketplace to make space for better investments.
Thus, when we are confronted with a car that claims extreme originality and preservation, with a few holes in their story we are perversely drawn to know the "truth". As well stated a couple times in the thread, this is a very nice 951S and deserves decent money. It is as original as claimed and supported by an experienced dealer who knows what they're talking about. Nah, not from the evidence collected to date. Somebody should buy this car and get to the bottom of it
Thus, when we are confronted with a car that claims extreme originality and preservation, with a few holes in their story we are perversely drawn to know the "truth". As well stated a couple times in the thread, this is a very nice 951S and deserves decent money. It is as original as claimed and supported by an experienced dealer who knows what they're talking about. Nah, not from the evidence collected to date. Somebody should buy this car and get to the bottom of it
12-09-2007, 11:27 AM
#74
Addict
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
The funny part is if he was to open the gauge cluster and roll his possibly legit 9,200 miles UP to say, 19,000 or 20,000, all you all would be all over this Turbo saying how awesome it is and how it's a collectors piece worth every penny it gets.
12-09-2007, 12:18 PM
#75
Geaux Tigers!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Rock
I hope that guy gets every dime and more for that beautiful car.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
The seats look beautiful. Not easy to get the script material anymore and the script on those seats looks incredible.
Last, it's $15 grand not $50 grand.