First peice of the NA turbo is here!
11-08-2005, 11:32 AM
#1
Campeck Rulez
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First peice of the NA turbo is here!
wooo!
i can finnally see where the turbo will actually sit now that i have one.
this isnt the turbo ill use. 1) it isnt mine. 2) it needs a rebuild.
I cant wait to start putting this all together.
i can finnally see where the turbo will actually sit now that i have one.
this isnt the turbo ill use. 1) it isnt mine. 2) it needs a rebuild.
I cant wait to start putting this all together.
11-08-2005, 01:34 PM
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A sledgehammer would've been cheaper - and will end up doing the same thing to your engine by the time you're done. No offense man, but I can just tell this is going to end badly.
11-08-2005, 01:46 PM
#7
Campeck Rulez
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Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile
A sledgehammer would've been cheaper - and will end up doing the same thing to your engine by the time you're done. No offense man, but I can just tell this is going to end badly.
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11-08-2005, 01:54 PM
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Look, I know that's harsh, but do you have any idea the pandora's box of issues you're opening here? I know from your posts in the past you're a well-intentioned guy but don't exactly have a lot of money to dump into a project like this. Either you're going to get into it and run out of cash, and end up selling the car for $500 to someone or you're going to get impatient, cut corners and seriously damage something - and end up selling the car for $500.
The only way around this is to TAKE YOUR TIME and do it correctly. Collect all the stuff you need (it would've been easier to just buy a used 951 long block, IMO). If you think you're going to throw a turbo conversion together in two weeks for under $1,000 though you're in for a very nasty surpise. Trust me on this from a guy that owns a 951 and is doing a turbo conversion of my own - there are a LOT of unexpected things that will come up. My Callaway won't be done until middle of next year at best - that's a full TWO YEARS after I started getting ready to do it and purchased the core components.
Sorry to bust your bubble man, but I'm just trying to save you from yourself here. I wish you the best, but please be realistic about it.
The only way around this is to TAKE YOUR TIME and do it correctly. Collect all the stuff you need (it would've been easier to just buy a used 951 long block, IMO). If you think you're going to throw a turbo conversion together in two weeks for under $1,000 though you're in for a very nasty surpise. Trust me on this from a guy that owns a 951 and is doing a turbo conversion of my own - there are a LOT of unexpected things that will come up. My Callaway won't be done until middle of next year at best - that's a full TWO YEARS after I started getting ready to do it and purchased the core components.
Sorry to bust your bubble man, but I'm just trying to save you from yourself here. I wish you the best, but please be realistic about it.
11-08-2005, 02:41 PM
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It CAN be done...an NA is certainly stout enough to take light boost (~5psi). And it would be fun. But I have a feeling Jeff is right. I was seriously considering the same project, but I knew in the end I'd cut corners due to a low budget and end up breaking something I couldn't afford to replace.
If you really have the money to do the job right, you'd have all the parts required already. I don't mean to be negative, just realistic. You'd be the guinea pig for a low-budget turbo kit. But since you're doing it before anyone else, it won't end up being as "low budget" as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys who do it and learn from your mistakes.
Nevertheless...good luck, and I hope you can get it together if you're already committed!
If you really have the money to do the job right, you'd have all the parts required already. I don't mean to be negative, just realistic. You'd be the guinea pig for a low-budget turbo kit. But since you're doing it before anyone else, it won't end up being as "low budget" as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys who do it and learn from your mistakes.
Nevertheless...good luck, and I hope you can get it together if you're already committed!
11-08-2005, 02:50 PM
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yeah, I'd love to see it done, sounds like a fun project, not the route I would take, but it will be a good learning experience and alot of fun for you I am sure. Will you share your extended plan campeck, or do we just have to wait?
11-08-2005, 04:17 PM
#11
Campeck Rulez
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heh. now i get to take off the headers and play around where the turbo will sit. move the sections around..thinking of how the piping will go ect. after that i get to try my hand at building a set of headers.
after that...find an intercooler and plumb everything. then take it all off....and get a megasquirt to tune the car. (that ones actually first) and then put the turbo back on and tune it for boost.
all in time....all in time
(the engine im doing the conversion on hasnt even been rebuilt yet.)
after that...find an intercooler and plumb everything. then take it all off....and get a megasquirt to tune the car. (that ones actually first) and then put the turbo back on and tune it for boost.
all in time....all in time
(the engine im doing the conversion on hasnt even been rebuilt yet.)
11-08-2005, 04:39 PM
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Campeck if you do get started on this soon, I know a number of megasquirt experts and of course, have access to all kinds of stuff at school. Let me know if you need any help, anything made/fabricated, or want help tuning, you are really close by.
11-08-2005, 04:48 PM
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Megasquirt is a decent idea - that'll solve some of the problems, but you also need to consider how you're going to control boost (wastegate? Where?) How are you going to connect up the exhaust? Keep in mind that custom exhausts are expensive and a pain to get right. Where are you planning on putting your O2 sensor and/or wideband sensor? How are you providing the water cooling for that k26? How about oil? How do you plan on routing the oil return? Are you running a restrictor plate? How are you dealing with the extra engine heat and higher underhood temps? What are you doing to account for MAF limitations? What compression ratio are you planning on using? What about the transmission, clutch, CVs? Are they being strengthened? What about suspension and brakes - any plans for those? Et cetra, et cetra, et cetra. . .
You're in for a world of fun. . .
You're in for a world of fun. . .
11-08-2005, 05:14 PM
#14
I dont see why everyone tlaks this kinda stuff down. YES a NA can be turbocharged, people make custome simple turbo systems all the time, Yes it takes some time and money but with all the technology out there now it should be easy to come up with a way to do it. Will it have as much boost as a 951, probley not, will it be as fast as a 951, no. The point is its faster then a NA and He made it that way with his own ideas/money/sweat. I do think you should take the time a come up with a list of things that need to be done kinda like Porsche-o-phile said, just make sure you cover everything and keep it as simple as possable. Good luck man
11-08-2005, 05:17 PM
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None of this is really that difficult, depending on your approach. The simplest way is to use as many 951 parts as you can. Why make a custom exhaust manifold? You're re-inventing the wheel. Mimic the 951 setup and run mild boost. There's no need to strengthen anything if you keep it mild.
Jeff, I've put turbos on a few NA cars in the past. It's far simpler than what you make it out to be. Though I think it's also more difficult than Campeck realizes. For a basic low pressure system, most of that stuff you mentioned is a non-issue and does not need to be addressed. If he's going for 400hp, that's another story. But if he's going for ~200 to ~250, most of that stuff is icing on the cake and not necessary. Suspension, brakes, CVs, underhood temps, restrictor plate...none of that is required to do a basic job.
I think you're talking about replicating a 951, or a factory turbo setup. Adding a bolt-on turbo kit is a different thing, and for most that use aftermarket kits, there's no need to worry about a lot of that other stuff. Part of the attraction is the simplicity of the package. I agree it would be a nice touch to address some of those things, but they aren't needed.
The factory comression ratio is just fine if he keeps the pressures down and uses an intercooler. There's plenty of turbocharged 4 cyls. running around with 10.5 and 11:1, and some of those can handle quite a bit of boost...even though they were N/A from the fatory (Civic Si and Type R).
The NA brakes are plenty with good pads (50-150 bucks), fresh rotors, and possibly steel lines (60 bucks). Cheap and simple.
Suspension is a non-issue unless he plans on breaking world speed records or running Le Mans. A few extra horsepower won't turn a 944 into a '72 Cadillac handling-wise.
Underhood temps would be no different than a 951, but if he's that worried, he could jacket the turbo and be done with it. You can also vent the hood (prop it at the rear with spacers.) Extra engine heat? Run a good oil cooler (65 bucks) and water wetter (8 bucks). Done.
Just be prepared to have some MAJOR down-time from the way you're approaching it, Camp. You're making it harder than it needs to be. Fabricating parts? You may as well do the internals at that point.
What are your goals for the car? Are you trying for big power, or just mild boost?
Jeff, I've put turbos on a few NA cars in the past. It's far simpler than what you make it out to be. Though I think it's also more difficult than Campeck realizes. For a basic low pressure system, most of that stuff you mentioned is a non-issue and does not need to be addressed. If he's going for 400hp, that's another story. But if he's going for ~200 to ~250, most of that stuff is icing on the cake and not necessary. Suspension, brakes, CVs, underhood temps, restrictor plate...none of that is required to do a basic job.
I think you're talking about replicating a 951, or a factory turbo setup. Adding a bolt-on turbo kit is a different thing, and for most that use aftermarket kits, there's no need to worry about a lot of that other stuff. Part of the attraction is the simplicity of the package. I agree it would be a nice touch to address some of those things, but they aren't needed.
The factory comression ratio is just fine if he keeps the pressures down and uses an intercooler. There's plenty of turbocharged 4 cyls. running around with 10.5 and 11:1, and some of those can handle quite a bit of boost...even though they were N/A from the fatory (Civic Si and Type R).
The NA brakes are plenty with good pads (50-150 bucks), fresh rotors, and possibly steel lines (60 bucks). Cheap and simple.
Suspension is a non-issue unless he plans on breaking world speed records or running Le Mans. A few extra horsepower won't turn a 944 into a '72 Cadillac handling-wise.
Underhood temps would be no different than a 951, but if he's that worried, he could jacket the turbo and be done with it. You can also vent the hood (prop it at the rear with spacers.) Extra engine heat? Run a good oil cooler (65 bucks) and water wetter (8 bucks). Done.
Just be prepared to have some MAJOR down-time from the way you're approaching it, Camp. You're making it harder than it needs to be. Fabricating parts? You may as well do the internals at that point.
What are your goals for the car? Are you trying for big power, or just mild boost?