Exciting supercharger info for all 944 owners. COME IN HERE!
03-10-2005, 09:41 PM
#136
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btw I'm not saying that doing this to your 944 Turbo isn't awesome:
http://www.vitesseracing.com/Catalog.../stage_ii.html
It is, but the supercharger will fill in the powerband below 4k RPM.
410HP 424TQ
http://www.vitesseracing.com/Catalog.../stage_ii.html
It is, but the supercharger will fill in the powerband below 4k RPM.
410HP 424TQ
03-10-2005, 10:04 PM
#137
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1) The start of that 944 S/C article, on page one, states a 2.5L, 4 cyl, 4 valve engine. This means a 16V S car, not an 8V! I only read that first paragraph so maybe it changes later.
2) Controlling the fuel is simple. We would do it the same way millions of pther people do after adding a turbo or S/C to an N/A car. Piggyback systems, stand alone, or some combination of chip tuning/rising rate FPR/injectors. It's really not hard at all.
3) 944J, the prices you mentioned don't seem to be very accurate to me. I've been shopping A LOT lately. You're basically lowballing the N/A price, and padding the 951 price IMHO. I haven't seen a 951 for $10k in a while, unless it was a Turbo S, or a grandma car with 30k original miles. From what I've been seeing the last few weeks, a 944 (series 2) CAN be had for 3000, but it will be rough. As for the 951's, I've seen clean ones for 6000, and there's one VERY nice one on Craigslist right now asking 6900. On EBay people may pay as much as 7000-8000, but more often than not, they are morons.
I think a good, clean 944 will run closer to 3500-4000, and a decent 951 would be probably closer to 7500. Sure, they can be had less, and sometimes more, but this is what I have seen lately (past few weeks) in So Cal and on EBay.
4) I would certainly be willing to put time into R&D; perhaps we can create a group e-mail list for those interested and collectively share our findings. It seems people still want to hide info and keep secrets (like that silly headwork guy), but if we are serious about getting this off the ground, we need to share the wealth. I do know some fabricators who would help me out, but I do not have much to spend in terms of capital. I guess the first thing to do is research the old S/C kits that SFR and Huntley were making. Better yet, find an owner of an S/C car and talk to him. Find all the pics and numbers you can.
I just created a Yahoo! group. The link to join is here...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SC944
Send group e-mails here...
SC944@yahoogroups.com
For those interested, please use this Group as a way to share info. I don't see why we couldn't get this done in the next 6 to 9 months.
PS...Tuners still charge $1200 for an MAF kit?! Didn't we already prove it can be done for $600 or even less?! Wowsers.
2) Controlling the fuel is simple. We would do it the same way millions of pther people do after adding a turbo or S/C to an N/A car. Piggyback systems, stand alone, or some combination of chip tuning/rising rate FPR/injectors. It's really not hard at all.
3) 944J, the prices you mentioned don't seem to be very accurate to me. I've been shopping A LOT lately. You're basically lowballing the N/A price, and padding the 951 price IMHO. I haven't seen a 951 for $10k in a while, unless it was a Turbo S, or a grandma car with 30k original miles. From what I've been seeing the last few weeks, a 944 (series 2) CAN be had for 3000, but it will be rough. As for the 951's, I've seen clean ones for 6000, and there's one VERY nice one on Craigslist right now asking 6900. On EBay people may pay as much as 7000-8000, but more often than not, they are morons.
I think a good, clean 944 will run closer to 3500-4000, and a decent 951 would be probably closer to 7500. Sure, they can be had less, and sometimes more, but this is what I have seen lately (past few weeks) in So Cal and on EBay.
4) I would certainly be willing to put time into R&D; perhaps we can create a group e-mail list for those interested and collectively share our findings. It seems people still want to hide info and keep secrets (like that silly headwork guy), but if we are serious about getting this off the ground, we need to share the wealth. I do know some fabricators who would help me out, but I do not have much to spend in terms of capital. I guess the first thing to do is research the old S/C kits that SFR and Huntley were making. Better yet, find an owner of an S/C car and talk to him. Find all the pics and numbers you can.
I just created a Yahoo! group. The link to join is here...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SC944
Send group e-mails here...
SC944@yahoogroups.com
For those interested, please use this Group as a way to share info. I don't see why we couldn't get this done in the next 6 to 9 months.
PS...Tuners still charge $1200 for an MAF kit?! Didn't we already prove it can be done for $600 or even less?! Wowsers.
03-10-2005, 10:20 PM
#138
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I may be padding the turbo numbers because you can always find a cheaper car, but there are tons for mid teens on autotrader.
But my $3k for a good 944na is about right. I got mine for $550 but it is rough, but perfect to experiment with a supercharger.
The keys are lowering the compression and the fact that you put $3300 into a vitesse kit for 300hp plus any labor and you still need to spend the same money that the na guys need to spend if you want upgraded supsension so add another $1k or however much you want to spend.
But my $3k for a good 944na is about right. I got mine for $550 but it is rough, but perfect to experiment with a supercharger.
The keys are lowering the compression and the fact that you put $3300 into a vitesse kit for 300hp plus any labor and you still need to spend the same money that the na guys need to spend if you want upgraded supsension so add another $1k or however much you want to spend.
03-10-2005, 10:23 PM
#139
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Dude...550 bucks has got to be more than rough! Is it an early car or late? Everything I've seen in the 3k range had been rough. 550 bucks is a rolling chassis or shredded interior (late models).
And the mid-teens cars are still there for a reason...no one is buying them at that price! At least I wouldn't...hehe!
And the mid-teens cars are still there for a reason...no one is buying them at that price! At least I wouldn't...hehe!
03-10-2005, 10:33 PM
#140
Three Wheelin'
Honestly I don't know why everyone is so hopped up on changing the suspension on the NA. I haven't had the chance to really dog an NA and push it all the way to the limits but from what I have done it is more than capable of handling a bit of supercharging. I would say short of the tranny everything else would just need to be upgraded as you went along and felt the need.
URIN 2ND where is this $600 MAF kit? I haven't seen it and would definately be interested in it if it did exist.
URIN 2ND where is this $600 MAF kit? I haven't seen it and would definately be interested in it if it did exist.
03-10-2005, 10:50 PM
#141
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I put one together last year and then sold the parts. It wasn't that hard...A/F controller (I think I used an Apexi SAFC, about 200 bucks on EBay) , Granatelli MAF (3", about 120 bucks on EBay), and Danno was set to map a chip for it...there's only a few parts to it. Wiring it isn't that difficult, a lot of people here knew how to wire it up. Danno was a big help but I never got the engine together so I sold the parts.
SplitSecond also sells universal MAF conversion kits that include:
ARM1 Air/fuel Ratio Meter
ARC2-A Air/fuel Ratio Calibrator or PSC1-004 Programmable Signal Calibrator
MAF3.0 Mass Air Flow sensor
MAF Wire Loom
Universal Installation Instructions
The kits are $737 (ARC2) or $855 (PSC1). www.splitsec.com .
You can still make your own for a couple hundred less though.
SplitSecond also sells universal MAF conversion kits that include:
ARM1 Air/fuel Ratio Meter
ARC2-A Air/fuel Ratio Calibrator or PSC1-004 Programmable Signal Calibrator
MAF3.0 Mass Air Flow sensor
MAF Wire Loom
Universal Installation Instructions
The kits are $737 (ARC2) or $855 (PSC1). www.splitsec.com .
You can still make your own for a couple hundred less though.
03-10-2005, 10:53 PM
#142
I don't think the brakes and suspension are essential but the NA transaxle? It's hard to image the R&P lasting very long with a big power increase. Unless I'm mistaken, the torque tube is also upgraded on the 951 (and let's not forget the clutch). These are the things that really make me think twice about a supercharger or turbo engine in the NA chassis.
03-10-2005, 10:59 PM
#143
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I don't think the trans will be THAT much of a problem, depending on your goals with the kit.
A well-tuned 944 makes 125-130 hp to the wheels, or somewhere near there? Well, a basic S/C kit running moderate boost (6 to 12 psi) should make somewhere in the neighborhood of 175 to the wheels.
I really don't think that's beyond the stock trans, as long as it's healthy. Of course, if it already has problems, then the stock horsepower could be enough to break it.
A well-tuned 944 makes 125-130 hp to the wheels, or somewhere near there? Well, a basic S/C kit running moderate boost (6 to 12 psi) should make somewhere in the neighborhood of 175 to the wheels.
I really don't think that's beyond the stock trans, as long as it's healthy. Of course, if it already has problems, then the stock horsepower could be enough to break it.
03-10-2005, 11:00 PM
#145
Three Wheelin'
[QUOTE=AznDrgn]I would say short of the tranny everything else would just need to be upgraded as you went along and felt the need.
The torque tube is the same in an NA as in a turbo. The clutch would probably need to be upgraded depending on how much power you end up laying down but you could probably get away with running whatever you have until it dies then upgrading. Most of us are running on worn out clutches anyways and something a bit stronger doesn't cost all that much more. If you are planning on laying down BIG numbers I would say go with an early motor with forged internals or use turbo internals. I think most NA owners would be very happy if their 944 layed down ~200RWHP, there will be some who would want to push the limits but there are always those who will constantly want more.
The torque tube is the same in an NA as in a turbo. The clutch would probably need to be upgraded depending on how much power you end up laying down but you could probably get away with running whatever you have until it dies then upgrading. Most of us are running on worn out clutches anyways and something a bit stronger doesn't cost all that much more. If you are planning on laying down BIG numbers I would say go with an early motor with forged internals or use turbo internals. I think most NA owners would be very happy if their 944 layed down ~200RWHP, there will be some who would want to push the limits but there are always those who will constantly want more.
03-10-2005, 11:05 PM
#146
Like I said I don't know how to control the fuel on these car when a supercharger is put on. This is my ideal setup. Keeping everything stock except for the extra fuel needed and the supercharger, intake manifold. If that could be done the cost would go way down.
03-10-2005, 11:18 PM
#147
Maybe I'm just a pessimist. It just seems that the R&P is a weak link on the NA cars and many have been broken with only 130 RWHP. I suppose you can always wait until it happens and then get a turbo tranny...
03-10-2005, 11:55 PM
#149
Yea titanium gears... at a cost of your first born son.. I did contact Power Haus gears when I rebuilt mine - they are supposed to have a new & improved R&P but I never got any response back from them. I suspect there isn't too much of a market for high tech 944 gear sets, for the NA ratios at least. If you've got the extra power, you can afford the taller turbo gears...
03-11-2005, 12:06 AM
#150
Three Wheelin'
The life of the tranny is going to be largely determined by how you treat it. If you decide to dog it all day and everyday it will be very short lived if you are nicer to it it'll last longer. The turbo and S2 trannies are definately stronger but I'm sure I could break one in an NA just as easily if I was an abusive driver.