944J

What's the difference between:

A) a 951 engine with a vitesse kit

B) the same 951 engine with a supercharger that pushes more cfm/psi and everything else the same from the vitesse kit?

L8 APEKS

I don't know why these people can't grasp the point here.

First of all, you are telling us ~175 whp in 944, with a S/C powerband, will not be competitive to a stock 951. Since a stock 951 like makes about ~180 whp (just a wild guess...adjusting from a stock 217 @ crank), I am failing to see how the S/C car wouldn't be competitive, performance wise.

Second...WE KNOW that past that point, the power-to-dollar ratio of the S/C car would be REDICULOUS compared to the 951. We know that once the 951 is chipped, it's all over performance-wise.

But some people, like myself, would be happy with sub-200 WHP, and wouldn't need to take it any farther. So comparing the potential 944 S/C car to a modded-out 951 making more power is completely and totally irrelevant, since I am not concerned with any more than ~200 whp from an N/A.

The fact of the matter is, it still seems entirely possible to purchase and supercharge a 944, bring it to stock 951 power levels, and cost NO MORE than a similar-condition 951. Going out and buying an N/A just to get this done may not make much sense. BUT, for those of us who already have N/A's, why the heck not? We already have the platform. Maybe it would be more of a hassle to try to sell the cars we already have, and already have a working knowledge of, losing money on the sale, only to have to hunt for the right 951.

Just because you have a 951, doesn't mean you have to try to extract 400hp from it. More than half the cars I see for sale brag about being 17 years old and "100% stock". No chips, no nothing. So apparently, many other people, 951 owners included, are happy with ~175 whp.

Why can't we be too? Especially since it seems like can be done for the same price as a stock 951?

Matt H

Not even close to all that is different. There is more different than alike once you leave the interior.

I am trying to be polite but you know as much anout 944s as my left nut. The purpose of a "kit" is P&P installation. You are also FOS, there are prodcuts built by other that are far better than what you can build.

Bull*****ng ****. A stock 944 Turbo makes an NA feel like a GD Yugo. I am done talking with you, you clearly have no idea WTF you are talking about.

Answer:
One will actually the run, the other is a figment of your imagination.

Sean, a stock 951 that isnt run down will make 190HP all day. I dont care if you want to SC a lawnmower, go to it, your money. I am done with this discussion I think.

It is a shame that people like Tim and Carl try to do anything for the 944. This is the cheapest bunch of car owners I have seen in a long time. Carl, I think I tried to warn you of that when you first thought about this idea.

Next time you guys wonder why X doesnt exist you can find the answer here. Because the people with no working knowledge of the car are sure they can do it for free. Those evil tuners are just out there to rip you off. Can you make it work for less than 6K? I am 100% sure that you can. Will it last more than a few weeks? Who knows. Go ahead and cobble some POS together let me be the first to donate some duct tape and bailing wire.

BTW, I bet this guy said, I can do a 350 swap cheaper than Renegade.

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https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...chmentid=17982
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L8 APEKS

Just because you don't pay for a 60% profit margin on an intake and a bracket to some "tuner", doesn't mean it's "cobbled together" or held together with "some duct tape and bailing wire."

And now, anything that isn't a Turbocharged 944 is a "lawnmower" according to you? Geez. Where's the love?

I've been in more than a few 951's. I had a host of VW's that consistantly handed 951's their butts on silver platters, chipped or not. So I am one that, while I DO appreciate them even in stock form, I DO NOT think they are all that fast. Quick, ok. Fast? Nope. Not stock.

I guess some people are just mentally P-whipped by the idea of a turbocharged four cylinder, be it Porsche or Honda or what have you. At the end of the day, it's just a 217hp 4-banger. Don't talk like it's a CGT. Nothing to get so excited about.

That having been said...I still want one. I just can't seem to find one in good shape for under $7k. Go figure.

Leave the elitist attitudes to the 99X guys. haha. These are near-20 year old 4-bangers. We need to check the egos here people.

my84-944

WHAT?
So you are saying it was because the v-8 was too expensive right? What about the V-6?
You are saying it was the profit margin that made Porsche decide on the I-4 and not the V-8? That the LS1 is lighter than the Porsche 951 proves your point? Here we go:
1ST,
The 944 was made to be an inexpensive option over the more expensive model line up. So yes cost was PART of the issue. But not the main factor.
2 ND
The Race car made 400 Hp because it was a race car. The 90 Hp was due to legal and enviromental reasons. If you disagree run yor car with no cat and straight pipes like a race car and see how easy it is to pass DEQ.I know you still won't have 400 hp but you wont have a legal car either.
3 rd
The fact that the 944 is near 50/50 weight means nothing to you? Will the LS1 weigh more than my 944 2.5 with an SC?

my84-944

WOW. This is a hot post.
Listen, While all opinions are valid here, I am a little disappointed in the "list' today.
First off where do any of us get off trying to block anyone else from doing to their cars what they want too? Ricers are flamed here for obvious reasons and I agree with most of it, but the reason they have all the intakes and aftermarket performance stuff is they allow the people who build it to do so and if it works they buy it. They do not tell the poeple who are trying to make something that they want that it is not cost effective like you guys have here. As for calling anything around here "Tuner" related is nonsence. I do not see RUF on any of your cars. Also while I do agree with 944J, Matt H and Sean on some points, I am disillusioned that you guys would take something this silly and try and have a pissing match over it. If I choose to super charge my 84 944 NA for 1000.00 or 4000.00 it is my business. It is my God given right to modify MY car the way I see fit. Good taste would keep the spinners and picinic table *** looking wing away, but if I can make 40-50 more HP in my car and enjoy it who the hell are you to say anything? Will it hurt you? Will it make your TURBO less valuable? If this is a post for 944 NA superchargers, why are 944 guys in here trying to get us NA guys to go for turbos or their way and Keep our "GD Yugo" performing cars? MY CAR IS NOT A DOMN YUGO PAL. If this is something you feel this strongly about, why not post it in the Turbo post and let us NA folks decide for ourselves? Just because we bought what you all may consider an "inferrior" car to yours, does not mean we are stupid and will ruin our cars with out you comming in on a white horse to save us.

944J

believe it or not, we do it for fun

the key is to remain open-minded and polite and not tell anyone that they are wrong, just that you have an idea too

944J

Take it easy and try to respond to the topics and questions actually posted instead of throwing insults.

I asked

What's the difference between:

A) a 951 engine with a vitesse kit

B) the same 951 engine with a supercharger that pushes more cfm/psi and everything else the same from the vitesse kit?

I did this to get people's real experienced opinions on it. And of course its theoretical. But theory changes to fact in the blink of an eye.

Tell me I don't know anything about cars is like a grown man kicking the crap out of a kindergardner.

I seriously would like to see what happens when you put a kenne bell on a 951 engine.

Btw, 190HP IS a lawn mower by todays standards.

944J

I agree here. I didn't mean to say that the kit makers were evil or not making good products. My point was that they are commercial business ventures. When they come to a point where they can go

a) go big
b) make a profit

They choose b) every time unless they can do a) and b) which is not the case with most 944na's since they are so cheap.

944J

I am just going on what I have read and yes, if Porsche could have made just as much money with a v-8 or a v-6 in a 944 they would have, unless it also would have cut into their marketing plan to keep the 928 at top and the 911 on top of that. Porsche is a business last time I checked. This means their cars for people to buy are always compromises to get the best of all issues and therefore not always the best performance (it's still great performance.) If they maxed out every car then we wouldnt be here doing any of this. And maybe part of their business plan is to make the cars with a lot of headroom for mods so that they keep the customer base busy and happy modding and buying more parts well into 20 years after the cars are made

1st - in a business profit is always the primary deciding factor
2nd - I don't know the exact details but 90 to 400 hp is a lot more than a cat and muffler. They had turbos on them and I think a 944 engine (not sure.)
3rd - did I say anything about the weight distribution? I think I read that the ls1 is approx. the same weight as a 944/951/955sc.