911 with an American alumnium v-8 small block?
08-16-2002, 05:39 PM
#1
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911 with an American alumnium v-8 small block?
Okay - so I've heard about these but have never seen one before - Oldsmobile V8 alumnium small block Can it be done (surely anything is possible)? Anyone familiar with the cost, technical difficulties and etc?
I know I am going to get slack for asking but I have to. I have a blown engine and I must consider all options in light of my budget constraints.
I know I am going to get slack for asking but I have to. I have a blown engine and I must consider all options in light of my budget constraints.
08-16-2002, 06:08 PM
#2
King of Cool
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Oh I'm sure certain swamp moster will reply soon...
He has chevy small block in his 911. I'm sure he could share some info.
And next thing he'll tell you is that it has about 1490 hp and he wants to race you.
George, where are you?
He has chevy small block in his 911. I'm sure he could share some info.
And next thing he'll tell you is that it has about 1490 hp and he wants to race you.
George, where are you?
08-16-2002, 06:41 PM
#3
Race Car
Plumbing for cooling, then re-plumbing and cutting sheet metal to try and get more cooling. It's going to cost you a lot more than a 3.2 swap would, IMO.
Do a search for "Renegade Hybrids" for information on it.
Or wait for George.
Do a search for "Renegade Hybrids" for information on it.
Or wait for George.
08-16-2002, 06:54 PM
#4
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Saw a 911 w/ a small block turbo buick at a PCA event this year. All of the cutting, coolant hose routing and where to put the radiater along with the weight bias changes made it look to me like an expensive excerise for someone who had a roller to start with and didn't know what else to do. The guy said it was a great drag car but thats all.
Jerry
Jerry
08-16-2002, 07:16 PM
#5
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If you butcher the car like that, well it is just that, Butchered. Not worth a dime, and a real P.O.S. in most cases.
Renegade Hybrids is blowing a lot of smoke about how little power the 944 (including turbo)/911/928 series cars make. For a small fee, they will give you "cheap" HP, at the cost of your resale value and integrity of your Porsche. I got into a heated E-mail discussion about this with one of the owners, basically told him he was full of *hit, and asked him why he raved about the Porsche transmission, yet claimed the engines were way underpowered (which they are not). Simple, they don't have a tranny that will fit into the Porsche, if they did they would sell that too (while slamming the Porsche trans).
Let's face it, the engines renegade claims can make 400 HP need to be massaged to do so, and they won't last at all.
And don't buy the line of "it only costs this much", because there is a TON of other stuff involved that will drain you dry before it is all said and done. Let's not even mention how much heaver the *** of the 911 would become.
I have had a 944 for 12 years and a 928 (aftermarket turbocharged) for the last 5 years. I have yet to have any major engine problems whatsoever. Neither car has had any internal engine work at all. That is why I buy German cars, because when all the rest of them are in the scrap yard, the German cars are easily repaired and are still good for thousands more miles. Try getting 200,000 plus miles out of a pushrod 50s technology V8. It doesn't happen that often.
If you have a real P.O.S. car that you don't have a lot of money in, well go ahead. I'd rather ride my bike than be seen in some *** dragin', butchered 911, although I have to say that George's 911 does look alright.
Do the smart thing and buy a good used 911 engine for your car.
Renegade Hybrids is blowing a lot of smoke about how little power the 944 (including turbo)/911/928 series cars make. For a small fee, they will give you "cheap" HP, at the cost of your resale value and integrity of your Porsche. I got into a heated E-mail discussion about this with one of the owners, basically told him he was full of *hit, and asked him why he raved about the Porsche transmission, yet claimed the engines were way underpowered (which they are not). Simple, they don't have a tranny that will fit into the Porsche, if they did they would sell that too (while slamming the Porsche trans).
Let's face it, the engines renegade claims can make 400 HP need to be massaged to do so, and they won't last at all.
And don't buy the line of "it only costs this much", because there is a TON of other stuff involved that will drain you dry before it is all said and done. Let's not even mention how much heaver the *** of the 911 would become.
I have had a 944 for 12 years and a 928 (aftermarket turbocharged) for the last 5 years. I have yet to have any major engine problems whatsoever. Neither car has had any internal engine work at all. That is why I buy German cars, because when all the rest of them are in the scrap yard, the German cars are easily repaired and are still good for thousands more miles. Try getting 200,000 plus miles out of a pushrod 50s technology V8. It doesn't happen that often.
If you have a real P.O.S. car that you don't have a lot of money in, well go ahead. I'd rather ride my bike than be seen in some *** dragin', butchered 911, although I have to say that George's 911 does look alright.
Do the smart thing and buy a good used 911 engine for your car.
08-16-2002, 07:19 PM
#6
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Give Rod Simpson a call 310-826-3304. It's the best of both worlds. BTW: My weight is 50-50 on the scales at the race track. Jeff Stone owner of kelly moss motorsports set up the suspension for me himself. Jeff said the swamp monster weighs better than 993tt track prepped supercars.The smallblock weighs 100 lbs less than the turbo motor.
<a href="http://pws.prserv.net/4play/911chevy/index.html" target="_blank">SWAMP MONSTER</a>
<a href="http://pws.prserv.net/4play/911chevy/index.html" target="_blank">SWAMP MONSTER</a>
08-16-2002, 09:00 PM
#7
George, the work on your car is really nice, however, I bet the fabrication and other assorted labor sucked *** (and wallet) to do. Furthermore, a top notch V8 - like George's - is not that much cheaper - if at all - than a killer 911 engine. Also, George's is relatively light because he has an aluminum bow-tie block. the typical iron-blocks are heavy P.O.S.'s only good for front-engine, solid rear axle, garbagemobiles concerned only w/ going straight.
P.S. a 400 h.p. V8 will not last 100,000 miles - maybe 25,000.
P.S. a 400 h.p. V8 will not last 100,000 miles - maybe 25,000.
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08-16-2002, 09:21 PM
#9
Instructor
Without getting into the American V8 vs. German H6 debate, a rebuild of your blown engine should run you around $10k. Do what you want with the car, but think about the resale and maintinence issues involved with the transplant. These cars are unique in that most buyers are extremely discriminating. I would imagine that even if it were cheaper (which I doubt it would be) the loss of resale value would negate any cost savings.
08-17-2002, 12:05 AM
#10
King of Cool
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[quote]Originally posted by George 911-V8:
<strong>...BTW: My weight is 50-50 on the scales at the race track...</strong><hr></blockquote>
George,
How did you achieve that? I mean usually 50-50 cars have engine in front & tranny back or are mid engine cars etc. Your car has tranny quite back & engine behind rear axle.
Just curious to know how you did it?
<strong>...BTW: My weight is 50-50 on the scales at the race track...</strong><hr></blockquote>
George,
How did you achieve that? I mean usually 50-50 cars have engine in front & tranny back or are mid engine cars etc. Your car has tranny quite back & engine behind rear axle.
Just curious to know how you did it?
08-17-2002, 01:16 AM
#11
Flying Finn - ballast. And that's what I am going to use the 10,000 mile old 6 liter Chevy in my new p/up for now that it is already slapping its pistons - that or an anchor. This thing has 300 h.p. from 6!! liters and still detonates with 87 octane fuel.
08-17-2002, 08:29 AM
#12
<img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" /> looks I should've kept my mouth shut on your last post...IMHO GM makes a VERY good V8 or V6 engine, I have seen these go well over 200k when taken care of, most of their V6's have a standard 200HP...if this is your daily driver...it's not for show, it's not for resale/profit, so it's all about the $$$...
1) your engine is blown now
2) if your car was worth $xxxx with a good engine, what's it worth with the same one (if you want resale, I'd stick to the numbers matching)
3) what's it going to cost you (PCAR vs. GM)
What it all comes down to is how YOU feel about the situation. My family (uncles/father/etc)all have Chevrolet Impala SS's from (65/66/68) some have the matching engines, others don't...some could care less, others will not consider anything else...their cars are all beautiful...I could go on and on, but hey...do what you can afford and feel comfortable with, just make sure you talk to alot of people that have gotten this done, get a list of owners from this "Renegade Hybrids", do your research...I own a '88 944...if mine blows, I'll look into ALL options...best of luck to you
1) your engine is blown now
2) if your car was worth $xxxx with a good engine, what's it worth with the same one (if you want resale, I'd stick to the numbers matching)
3) what's it going to cost you (PCAR vs. GM)
What it all comes down to is how YOU feel about the situation. My family (uncles/father/etc)all have Chevrolet Impala SS's from (65/66/68) some have the matching engines, others don't...some could care less, others will not consider anything else...their cars are all beautiful...I could go on and on, but hey...do what you can afford and feel comfortable with, just make sure you talk to alot of people that have gotten this done, get a list of owners from this "Renegade Hybrids", do your research...I own a '88 944...if mine blows, I'll look into ALL options...best of luck to you
08-17-2002, 10:03 AM
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John Kuhn2:
I have to disagree with you on the longevity of old American engines. Contrary to your belief, most of them actually do last hundres of thousands of miles, the engines actually outlast the car. In actuality Porsche engines tend not to last as long without an overhaul. Chevy's, Mopars, and Fords don't suffer from chronic timing chain/belt problems, pulled head studs, blown head gaskets (except for maybe the Chev 454). Of course good ol' V8's do have their own flaws, but my point is that the American engines fine engines in their own right and I don't think is fair to claim they don't last long because they absolutely do.
tp:
I have to disagree with you on a few points. American V-8's are fine engines and their longevity will not be detrimented because the hit the 400 hp marque. Do you honestly believe all those old Cobras, Corvettes, Mustangs, Cameros, and Firebirds only last 25000 miles? Our family had a stock 350 hp Chevy station wagon that last 300k miles, I really doubt adding an extra 50hp would cause the engine to self destruct. My friends 1995 400+ hp Z28 has 80k on it and it runs flawlessly. There are hot rods with 600+ hp that are used as reliable daily drivers. Engines modified in a proper way will last just as long as a non-modified engine.
Second, as far as weight goes, an Olds Aurora V8 or a Caddy Northstar V8 weigh a tiny bit less than a 993 TT engine, which nobody would claim as heavy. Of course an LT1 would be a little heavier, but I think that extra weight could be creatively balanced out.
Third, let's face it hp for American engines is far cheaper than german hp, superchargers, turbochargers, intake manifolds, throttlebodies, etc... are all cheaper for american engines. Additionally, you have more choice for you performance pieces because of market scale.. though one is limited in certain areas because the are applying modifications to a transplanted engine.
All that being said, there are many benefits to keeping the flat-6, like garages won't be afraid to work on it, no question about the resale value, lower cg, no modifications to the vehicle required.
Not trying to rant here or slight Porsche engines, I just thing fairness is in order. I have spent a lot of time modifying American cars (20 years now), and I know they have fine engines that are every bit equal to their Japanese and German competitors.
Regards,
Abdul
I have to disagree with you on the longevity of old American engines. Contrary to your belief, most of them actually do last hundres of thousands of miles, the engines actually outlast the car. In actuality Porsche engines tend not to last as long without an overhaul. Chevy's, Mopars, and Fords don't suffer from chronic timing chain/belt problems, pulled head studs, blown head gaskets (except for maybe the Chev 454). Of course good ol' V8's do have their own flaws, but my point is that the American engines fine engines in their own right and I don't think is fair to claim they don't last long because they absolutely do.
tp:
I have to disagree with you on a few points. American V-8's are fine engines and their longevity will not be detrimented because the hit the 400 hp marque. Do you honestly believe all those old Cobras, Corvettes, Mustangs, Cameros, and Firebirds only last 25000 miles? Our family had a stock 350 hp Chevy station wagon that last 300k miles, I really doubt adding an extra 50hp would cause the engine to self destruct. My friends 1995 400+ hp Z28 has 80k on it and it runs flawlessly. There are hot rods with 600+ hp that are used as reliable daily drivers. Engines modified in a proper way will last just as long as a non-modified engine.
Second, as far as weight goes, an Olds Aurora V8 or a Caddy Northstar V8 weigh a tiny bit less than a 993 TT engine, which nobody would claim as heavy. Of course an LT1 would be a little heavier, but I think that extra weight could be creatively balanced out.
Third, let's face it hp for American engines is far cheaper than german hp, superchargers, turbochargers, intake manifolds, throttlebodies, etc... are all cheaper for american engines. Additionally, you have more choice for you performance pieces because of market scale.. though one is limited in certain areas because the are applying modifications to a transplanted engine.
All that being said, there are many benefits to keeping the flat-6, like garages won't be afraid to work on it, no question about the resale value, lower cg, no modifications to the vehicle required.
Not trying to rant here or slight Porsche engines, I just thing fairness is in order. I have spent a lot of time modifying American cars (20 years now), and I know they have fine engines that are every bit equal to their Japanese and German competitors.
Regards,
Abdul
08-17-2002, 12:35 PM
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ViperRockness:
If you go with the Olds Aurora V8 (a derivative of the Cadallac Northstar) it will cost you more than adapting a typical smallblock Chevy.
You will require a custom exhaust, as I don't think anybody offers an exhaust for such a combination. You will probably have to modify/fabricate your own engine mounts.
The Aurora V8 is a very nice engine, though I would go with the Caddy engine because it's more common, cheaper (see Ebay), and has more power. Both engines have the same bellhousing pattern as the GM V6 used in the Chevy S10 truck, so the engine adapter kit should be one for such a V6.
The guys are right in the cost of extra components can factor in, but shrewd shopping can still make the project economical and save you some $$$ depending on what is wrong with your current engine (how bad is it by the way?). You really need to ask Renegade Hybrids what combinations of engines they support, what extra parts will you need for your final choice of engine, and what do you need to tweak to make it flawless. Then price out everything based on that information and see if it is really cheaper than repairing your existing engine.
If you want to roll your own kit, Kennedy Engineering sells just the engine to transmission adapter set, and they do have one for the Northstar to 915 which SHOULD also work for the Olds engine.
In the end it's your car, do what you desire, it does not matter what anybody else thinks. If you have the money the safest and most convienient course is to keep with the original type engine.
Good luck,
Abdul
If you go with the Olds Aurora V8 (a derivative of the Cadallac Northstar) it will cost you more than adapting a typical smallblock Chevy.
You will require a custom exhaust, as I don't think anybody offers an exhaust for such a combination. You will probably have to modify/fabricate your own engine mounts.
The Aurora V8 is a very nice engine, though I would go with the Caddy engine because it's more common, cheaper (see Ebay), and has more power. Both engines have the same bellhousing pattern as the GM V6 used in the Chevy S10 truck, so the engine adapter kit should be one for such a V6.
The guys are right in the cost of extra components can factor in, but shrewd shopping can still make the project economical and save you some $$$ depending on what is wrong with your current engine (how bad is it by the way?). You really need to ask Renegade Hybrids what combinations of engines they support, what extra parts will you need for your final choice of engine, and what do you need to tweak to make it flawless. Then price out everything based on that information and see if it is really cheaper than repairing your existing engine.
If you want to roll your own kit, Kennedy Engineering sells just the engine to transmission adapter set, and they do have one for the Northstar to 915 which SHOULD also work for the Olds engine.
In the end it's your car, do what you desire, it does not matter what anybody else thinks. If you have the money the safest and most convienient course is to keep with the original type engine.
Good luck,
Abdul
