Paul Kinder

I am trying to decide between a 1983 911SC "Whaletail" with 55,000 miles and a
1984 928S with 46,000 miles. Both cars are in excellent condition and the price is
about $12,000 for each. I plan to purchase one of them on Friday (Aug 24).

I previously owned a 928S but had to trade it in about five years ago for a new
Audi to use for work.

I am only home on weekends and thus would not put a lot of miles on the car.

The 928S has automatic transmission while the 911 has a five speed standard.
When I drove the 911, I had a hard time with the transmission from a standing start
(i.e., in 1st gear) but I am sure that is just a learning curve.

Apart from size, transmission, etc., are there any maintenance/reliability issues that
I should consider ?? Is one better than the other as an investment ??

Thanks
Paul

Reg

The 911 is a legend. It will always will be worth more than a 928.

The 928 is a V8 touring car. If you had owned one before and loved that car maybe go for it. On the other hand , why did you even consider the 911? This makes me believe you have a desire for it, something new or different than what you have experienced.

You will get onto the stick shift after a while.

I have never driven a 928, so my words cannot mean too much, but I can say that I am a new owner of an older 911 and I love it already , eeven though I have had all kinds of gremlins to deal with!

Eric '86 Targa

I've never owned a 928 before, but the '83 911SC you described is cherry! I would definitely go for the 911, especially for a weekend car.

The SCs are very reliable and '83 was the last year so they got as many of the bugs worked out as possible. The 928 can be expesnive to have repair - as I'm sure you are aware. The 915 transmission in the 911SC does take some getting used to. It took me a good three months of daily driving but now it's second nature. On the good side, I think I can drive just about any kind of transmission now. In fact, I was at a DE in Atlanta a couple months ago and drove a 914 that the guy claimed no one other then himself had been able to hit second gear without a few tries. I hit it the first time. The 914 had the old 901 transmission with reverse above first and second up and to the right of reverse.

windsor

Talk about wierd Paul, I am trying to make the same decision as well. I am selling an Audi that I needed to commute to work for an everyday driver (I've moved so close to work the Audi is overkill). I am debating between a 928S (preferably with a 5 speed) and an SC. It seems like 928s offer more "bang for the buck" since they were not as popular in the states, which prices reflect. I have yet to drive a 928, but have seat time in a 77 911S, which is a blast. I will be interested in what people post here, as well as what your experiences in the advantages of the 928 over the 911. Also, since I am looking for a daily driver, I am less interested in the investment side.

Buffalo

I recently purchased an 82 911 sc with not knowing my *** from a hole in the ground about the 911. I got lucky so far. Hard getting into first -- I discovered my problem was the entire shift housing was loose on the floor. Still bolted to the pan, but would move quite a bit when shifting. This mostly affected first gear. Discovered by accident, tightened the housing and it shifts considerably better. I've had the 911 for about 3 months-love it. Working through minor gremlins as in the post above, but not enough problems to shut it down.

Dial 911

Paul,
Unless we're talking about 356 Speedsters here, we can forget about most Porsche cars as "investments". However...

The 928 was a relatively expensive car when new, as was the 911. You have noticed the 928's do not hold their value as well as 911's. That alone should tip you off to something important about these cars.

The 928 and 911 may be from the same mother, but they are worlds apart in every facet of driving and ownership. Luckily, I never owned a 928, but did get to drive one for a while.... soft as a marshmallow, ample power, but very generic feeling. I could get the same package in any number of domestic autos for a lot less money.

The 911 in any model or year is a true sports car. It's not a luxo-cruiser, nor a drag-strip contender. But it will surely please any driver who needs more for his driving experience than just a comfortable utility vehicle. It's a legend, born from the great history of Porsche racing; while the 928 was an ostensible failure as a sports car.

As far as nuts and bolts are concerned, the 928 will confound most D-I-Y's. Typically, the parts are more expensive and less available than that of the 911. Most of us can troubleshoot our 911's, but the electrical system alone, of a 928 has seen many strong men weep and gnash their teeth in frustration.

DEL

Early in July I bought an 82 SC Targa 65000 miles on it. I had a problem right off the bat with the charging system but it's been trouble free ever since. I paid $12,500.

Sounds like the one you're looking it is an even better deal.

I can't stress enough that you should have a Pre-Purchase Inspection done! It would have saved me $500.00

Can't comment on the 928, it's going to come down to which one "rev's-your-scooter" as they say.

Jay H

Keep in mind that Porsche designed the 928 to take the place of the then aging 911. But, the 911 is still here and the 928 is now discontinued after many years of slumping sales. Kinda tells you what the majority of Porsche customers thought of the 928. The 928 is a great touring car, but they are very complex vs. the 911 of the same years.

Again, Dial 911's comments are right on the money. I agree.

It's really up to you on what you want to look at in your garage and what kind of driving experience you need. You may want to post on the 928 board and get those owner's feedback on their cars. I'm sure they love their 928's as much as we love our 911's.

Good luck!
Jay
90 964

Jamey

Hi Paul. Well I actually own both. I have an '84 928S auto and a '82 911SC 5spd. I have put 34K miles on the 928 as it was my daily driver for 2 years. No significant problems to speak of. The worst thing that has happened was a pinhole in the power steering hose. I replaced it myself. When I purchased it I had a new waterpump and timing belt put on as preventive maintenance. If i ever wanted to buy another 928 it wouldbe the '87 or newer S4 because of increased power and better brakes. But don't be mislead by the '83-'86 1/2 928s. The '85 and '86 have the 32valve engine found in the S4, with the older body style. Mine has a 4.7L 16valve engine and it is definitely not anemic. Actually a little faster than my 911. Smoother ride too. The rumble of the 8cyl and the fact that you can drive for weeks and not see another one on the road is a plus in my opinion.
While the 928 certainly filled my desire for a Porsche, I had always wanted a 911. So after looking for several months I found the one I wanted. It is now my daily driver and I gave the 928 to my fiance (now wife) for valentines day. To me the 911 is just more fun to drive. And although not as fast as the 928 it does outhandle it while drawing tons of attention. You can never be inconspicuous in a 911 !!. Parts are readily available from several 928 only suppliers here in the U.S. But be warned... there are not many good mechanics familiar with working on the 928. It's much easier finding a good 911 wrench. I think I'm starting to ramble, so bottom line is either model is great in it's own way. I ended up choosing the 911 to drive daily but it sure is alot of fun to hop in the 928 every once in awhile. www.geocities.com/jamey928/index.html

davor

You are talking apples and oranges here Paul. 928's and 911's serve two different functions...both very well. One is a marathon runner, the other a sprinter. It's interesting to note, however that Porsche's new "flagship" 911 platform...the 2001 Turbo is

1. Watercooled
2. Mated to a Mercedes Benz auto trans (tip version)
3. Is leaning more towards a GT car than a rough and tumble track car.

I own a 87S4 that is just too fun to drive...I use it as a GT car. The 928 is one of if not the ultimate GT. I have never owned a 911, but a lot of my friends do. It's prowess as a true "sports car" is legendary and unquestionalble. If I spoke ill of a 911, it would be out of pure ignorance....as some 928 bashing 911 owners are speaking of 928's here.

My personal criteria for a "sports" car when I was looking was:
1. Looks
2. Performance
3. Comfort
4. Two people, two sets of golf clubs and luggage for a weekend. I love road trips.

The 928 was the only thing that fit the bill for me. The fact that they have depreciated quickly was an asset in my book. I picked up an excellent example for $16k.

I strongly urge you to consider how you use the car(or want to use the car) in making your selection.

good luck,

davor
87S4 schwarzhai
91k

Paul Kinder

Thanks to all for your replies.

I am leaning towards the 928S because my wife would be able to drive it and I have not yet figured out how to put two golf bags in the 911.

What I am really concerned with are the maintenance upgrades for the 911. If the Tensioners, Air Boxes, and Clutch have not been upgraded, should I pass on this car
(55,000 miles) ?? Roughly how much to do all this ??

Are there any similar required upgrades for the 928S (46,000 miles) ?

Again, thanks to all.

Paul

john walkers workshop

it's simple. air good, water bad.

Jay H

Paul:

I would not pass on the 911 if you are only worried about the maintenance items you list above. Nice SC's, like the one you describe, are hard to find. (Nice 928's are hard to find too...)

A clutch replacement runs about $1500. Airbox popoff valve is $40-$50 and can be installed relatively easy. The tensioner upgrade can run about $500 for parts and about the same for labor. The nice thing about the airbox fix and the tensioner upgrade is that you'll probably never have to touch those areas again.

Hopefully a 928 owner can expand on what needs to be done to a 928 of the same age.

Good Luck!

Jay
90 964

davor

Hmmmm.....it seems Porsche's current engineers disagree with you.

davor

Are there any similar required upgrades for the 928S (46,000 miles) ?

Again, thanks to all.

Paul[/QB][/QUOTE]

Paul,

Timing belt and water pump are of utmost and primary maintenance concern. The t-belt and pump should be replaced every 40k mi or so. Porsche recommends 60k intervals, however given the ramifications of a skipped tooth or (rare) t-belt break,you should definitely err on the side of caution. A new t-belt/pump/ tensioners, etc. are about $1,400 by a Porsche dealer. There are many independents that do good work also, but be sure you find one that is familiar with 928's.

The 928 can be complicated in their sub-systems...AC, electrical, etc. More labor than part-cost intensive though. The drivetrains are pretty solid. Potential issues with older 928's are torque tubes, steering racks, etc. A good PPI should reveal any major issues.