Kevin Kwas

I have an interesting look at it since I just went through the same situation (sort of). Last October I bought a 1985 Euro 928 S. What a screamer! Anyway, after logging 1000 miles on it this year I am quite happy with it.

Well, my good friend decides he is finally ready for his first Porsche. The hunt was on. He finally found a 1970 911T that was all original and quite nice. (Pretty quick, but no 928). So, I help him drive the car 800 miles back. What do I have to say now.

Well, if I had to pick one as a daily driver it would be the 911. Small, light, easy to drive, and overall quite fun. If I had to pick one to drive 800 miles back from New York it would be the 928. Ultra smooth, ultra fast, ultra quite, and turns heads everywhere. (not that the 911 won't)

So, what do I think now. I want one of both. If the right 911 for the right price crosses my doorstep I will pick it up. However, until then I am very pleased with my 928 and wouldn't trade it for a 911.

Two different cars with two different personalities.

That probably didn't help, but good luck.

Kevin Kwas
1985 928 EuroS 5-speed

Martin S.

While lurking on the 911 Board (I usually hang out on the 993 Board), I came upon your post on what to buy.

As most have stated, you are talking two completely different cars here.

The 928S automatic is a great autobahn cruiser, heavy quiet and powerful, in general, your father's car. If you want to take it to Drivers Ed, or track it, the 911SC could be your best bet. Parts to make the SC handle are readily available, and inexpensive, as an example sway bars. If you are mechanical, you can do all your own maintenance on the 911 SC including adjusting the valves.

You wrote, "When I drove the 911, I had a hard time with the transmission from a standing start(i.e., in 1st gear) but I am sure that is just a learning curve."

The transmission in the 83 SC is the so called 915 transmission. They are reliable, but you can pretty much count on a re-build after 100,000 miles. This may be the early stages of what you are feeling.

You wrote, "Apart from size, transmission, etc., are there any maintenance/reliability issues that I should consider ?? Is one better than the other as an investment?"

As has been posted here, other than some very limited edition cars such as a 356 Speedster and other 356 rag tops, the 73 911 RS, etc., buying a later model 911 will not be an investment per se. However, the value of 911SC cars is steady, and may even be going up slightly. I don't think you will find this to be the case with the 928 S, or any other iteration of the 928. In general, people just don't want these cars, they never have, and probably never will, in contrast to the continued desirability of the 911 SC cars. All of the above submitted, of course, IMHO.

Good luck with your decision.

Steve, 914 guy

I work on alot of each car, SC & 928.
The 928's are really starting to come apart. Some well cared for cars have alot of broken interior parts, electrical nightmares, and poor running from vacuum leaks. We recently ordered a pile of vacuum hoses to get a very nice 928 running right again, and the Porsche dealer said "you're a brave man"
I asked what he meant, he said that everyone else was turning 928 vacuum problems away, they were medusa's box,
and they were tired of spending $1000 and never getting the car fixed.
Well, we spent $1000, never got the car running perfectly, just OK, ate 1/2 of the bill since we didn't really fix it, and aren't anxious to try it again. As near as we can tell, everything is perfect, except for the part where the car idles like ****. And this isn't the first time.
We are not inept, over 35 years of Porsche only experience between us.
Any other Porsche would be running perfectly after all that we've done.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
Good luck, Steve

Steve, 914 guy

Sorry, wrong mythological witch woman.
Pandora was the chick with the weird box, Medusa had the snake head hairdo and I think the ability to turn you to stone if you looked at her. Ancient Viagra?

Jdub

Paul:

I am going against the grain based on what I am intuiting about you. Two golf bags, wife must drive (assume auto.)? You need to get a non-Pcar and pass the 911 info. on to others.

This does sound a bit harsh, but I have spoken with so many folks who wanted to just dip their toes into the 911 waters and frankly you cannot do that. I, a plain idiot about these cars, lucked into a '78SC that had a myriad of problems I was totally unaware of. I have worked through them all (your 1st gear experience is probably indicative of a rebuild; is that OK for you?) and so can say that I would never part with any 911, I also am a fair wrench.

The downside is the time you will spend fixing the car to spec. No matter what anyone says, there are hidden problems that await you, and you wife might take a very dim view of shop time. So consider carefully, and remember that the 915 trans is a bear to shift, but huge fun as it is "old-school." Your wife will NOT be impressed by this.

Jw

Dial 911

Good advice there, from Jdub.
If I might put it into a nutshell...
The 911 is an enthusiasts car.
Most everything else is just transportation.

Jim_H

I bought my 89 928S4 aboout 6 months ago & I have had more fun with it than any car I have ever had. Fast & fun, great car on the track or cruising down the highway at 140mph.... comfortably. I think the 928 cruises better at 120 than 80. The 928 like the 911 will have some hidden bugs, don't let anyone, 911 or 928, tell you different. You will never find a better forum than the 928 rennlist to help you with ANYTHING that ails your Shark.
Here is the biggest drawback if you have a fragile ego, "most" 911 guys will snub there nose at you if you cross paths, but you get used to it.
I do carry 2 sets of golf clubs in my 928 from time to time and that is a benefit that you don't get in a 911.
Oh and by the way I do love 911's also.
As for the vacuum hose thing there is a bunch of 928's on the rennlist and none of us are seeing this?? But if your Shark sits for long periods I think that it "could" become an issue. No experience there.

Good luck with your decision!!

Jim Hurtt
89 S4 Auto

Great car, good luck on your decision

86Coupe

A friend and I bought old Porsches at the same time last year. He bought an 87 928 5-speed and I bought an 86 Carrera. I don't know what he paid but I spent $18K and budgeted $5K for repairs, got $23-24K in it. 108K miles.

Friend's 928 is a beauty -- 86K miles, original paint, good interior condition. I'm guessing he paid around $25K for the car, if so he would have close to what I have in my car for same year.

I'd say prices for the two cars you're considering are about right, they should be about the same considering example above.

But consider two more things that I've noticed about these cars...

Maintanence costs for 928 -- 928s are very complex and many things are starting to wear out on them like 914 Man says. Parts are very expensive. Friend's 928 needed a new radiator already and I know those aren't cheap.

Driver training events -- I never thought I'd want to put my car through one of these but attended an autocross event a few months back and got hooked. I appreciate the 911 in a whole new way and I was impressed by how well it held up to the "workout", newer running hot and brakes never fading. Drove it there, ran it out, drove it home.

Friend took his 928 out there and I give him tons of credit for that, it's definently not an autocross car!

Unless you have a nice high speed road like the autobahn I'm not sure you can wring as much pure entertainment out of a 928. The 911 always feels "fun" even around town. Through PCA driving events it can open up a whole new hobby.

I guess I'm saying to consider that the 928 will have higher maintanence costs and that the SCs are more fun to drive.

Also I think you will find that after adding say 20-30K miles to those cars that an 84 928 will be worth less than an 83 911.

$12K for a low mileage SC is a good price by the way. You can put about $3K into it and not feel bad. I would fix oil leaks, add new clutch, adjust shift linkage and do a complete service. After doing that you shouldn't need to do much assuming you change the oil regularly and don't abuse the car.

I had my A/C evacuated and recharged with R12 last week and can assure you that 911 A/C systems (at least the 86 and on models with larger A/C vents) are plenty good. So no advantage to 928 there in my opinion.

No matter what you decide you can't go wrong if the cars are in solid condition (PPI is a must), both are great cars.

davor

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve, 914 guy:
[QB]I work on alot of each car, SC & 928.
The 928's are really starting to come apart."

Really!?! C'mon now, how many 928's have you REALLY worked on??? My 928 wrench has fixed EVERYTHING that has ever come up on my car...first shot. That's because he's driven a 928 for 14 years and knows the car. Most 928's I've seen(including mine) are holding their own quite well. With the exception of my seat heating element, everything works and works well. Many 928listers cars have well over 100k mi. because people actually DRIVE them.

"Some well cared for cars have alot of broken interior parts, electrical nightmares, and poor running from vacuum leaks. "

Most cars I've seen with these issues are related to PO's tearing them apart and not putting them back together correctly. Bad butcher jobs by stereo/alarm installers, etc.

"We are not inept, over 35 years of Porsche only experience between us."

I'm sure you're quite competent with 911's etc., but the 928 is a different animal. It's issues recur consistently from car to car and really shouldn't be a mystery to a mechanic familiar with the platform. You say it idled poorly...did you check the idle stablizer valve or the LH brain??? Those are very common issues with 928's.

"Any other Porsche would be running perfectly after all that we've done.
Don't say I didn't warn you."

Btw, can any of you 911 fella's tell me the part number of the blinders that apparently come with all 911 platform cars???

Ed Ruiz

I've owned 928s for over 11 years. I have also owned a 914, but not long enough to really enjoy it. I've driven a few 911s and 944s. Bottom line - they are all different, yet uniquely Porsche.

The cost to maintain a 928 can be rather high, but not as high as those who know nothing about them usually think. (Beware of those who say "I've heard 928s cost...") The main items to watch out for are the timing belt (replace every 60k miles or 5 years) and maintaining the electrical system in tip-top shape. The vacuum system can be a nuisance, but it's not that hard to diagnose or repair.

In some cases, the normal wear items are actually less costly than those on a 911SC. For example; The clutch on a 928 can be replaced without removing the engine. (In fact, there is a cover that comes off and makes the task a two hour job for those who know what they're doing.) The valves never need to be adjusted. (That's an every 15k mile job on a 911SC.)

As far as handling goes, much of it depends on the driver. There are some 928 drivers who drive circles around their 911 peers. There are some 928 drivers that even kick-up their heels at autocrosses. However, the 928 is a heavier car than a 911, so one would expect the 911 to be a bit more nimble. For autobahn cruising, the 928 is the King of the Porsche hill.

Lastly, for the price you mentioned you should be able to find a decent 87S4 or maybe a slightly higher mileage 88S4. YMMV.

In any event, good luck.

Carlos

Two golf bags in a 911, no problem as long as you don't want to drive it while the golf bags are in it. I didn't see any of you 911 proponents mention the third world quality a/c sytem. Budget at least a grand to get it somewhat livable. And that still wont make the defroster work worth a damn. At my last PCA function there was 1, yes I said 1, 911 with air conditioning, a beautiful 993tt. If that's outside the budget dont count on a/c. And you might want to become good friends with someone capable of changing out the body pan when (if its not already that way) the overflow from the battery rots it out to the point of undrivability. Also get used to ANYTHING with a little bit of power driving off from you at red lights.

My 928 S4 will outrun, outbrake, outlast and provide a higher level of driving comfort than any 911 you can buy for twice the money. At 110k, the transmision is slicker and more precise than most new cars. Yeah the vacuum system is a pain in the ***. But a competent shop can solve the problem for about $500. IMHO the sole advandage of the 911 is that it is easier to get into and out of.

The money I spent on my 928 would have only afforded a rustbucket, rattletrap, lucky to make it home 911 that would be more expensive to maintain than Ivana Trump and wouldn't have enough power to pull a gresed string out of a cat's ***. If you are DEAD SET on a 911 then nothing else will do. But if value for your money has anything to do with it, the 928 wins by a light year.

Flying Finn

First of all, you said: "I am only home on weekends and thus would not put a lot of miles on the car."

In my opinion, that should already make you to choose 911, but if not, this is how it goes:

-Ask yourself what you want:

1) I want to have nice 'boulevard sport' car with nice handling & quite nice looks and overall comfortable feel.
Car that 10-20% of population can tell you what it is from 100 yards distance.

2) I want to have real sports car, legend. Great looks with 'mystic. When you drive it, you know, you're driving, not sittin' on a couch.
Car that 70-80% of population will know what it is from 500 yards distance

Finally, make a poll, Go and ask 100 people on the street: "what is the REAL Porsche?" Write down what they say and count how many times they say 911 and how many times they say 928. That will help you out.

If you still can't decide, here's the final one. Decide if you want to have a BIG grin on your face about 90% of the time you drive your car or not? If yes Call 911.

Anyway, have fun once you discover that you have 911 on your hands
(here's the grin again...)

t.p.

Anyone ever try to replace a clutch slave cylinder on a 928? You can remove and replace the engine on an SC in less time. 928 engine bays are cluttered and tight. Furthermore, the cabin is lame and doesn't age well - the 911's is spartan and easy to maintain. However, there is no denying that a 928 is fast (but in response to the post wherein it was claimed anything will take a 911 off the line, last time I checked 911's have some of the most impressive acceleration numbers this side of $100k. Your 928 can't even keep up with my 911's dust, buddy.)

ked

I am taken aback by the attitude that some of these posts reveal. Why is so much bile aimed at the car (911 or 928) that someone DOESN'T own (or like), versus proclaiming the advantages of what IS owned? In these cases, the critique becomes of dubious value; merely gross generalization, idiosyncratic experience, incomplete and/or plain innacurate.

It reminds me of all-too-typical religous & political discourse these days. "What is good about my position is that yours is bad"... Next step; ad hominum ad nauseum. No thanks.

R Robinson

Paul,

First off do not buy the car as an investment. Buy it because you want a Porsche and in particular you want "that" particular one. That said here are some considerations from well respected sources. I do have my strong feelings about the choice but again here is what others have said.

Writer Peter Bohr, " You might say that an Eighties' CARRERA is a classic 911 without the classic problems." ". . . the best all-around 911's ever built?" He was speaking of the 84-89 CARRERAs however the 911 you are looking at is just one year off.

911 and Porsche World had the following in an article about which Porsche makes the best trackcar.

"It's difficult to see why anyone would want to campaign a 928 - . . . The majority have automatic gearboxes, all are heavy and relatively unwieldly (however good they might be for autobahn cruising), and you'll get through petrol, tyres and not least brake pads like they're going out of fashion."

The spelling is all correct. (Those wonderful Englishmen).

I was also deciding between an 87 928S4 with 25,000 miles and an 84 Targa with 77,000.
I went with the 911 beause of the handling, classic lines and reliability. Later I went by the local dealership and chatted with the salesmen. They also discouraged buying the 928. Their reasons included high cost of upkeep, overall handling and availability of parts.

In the end choose what will make you happy, but at least with all of the good information the guys are giving you the choice will be with your eyes open.

Good luck!