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Maybe I didn't make it clear in the post, but the foundry does not make their own cores for this project. There are a few reasons for this:
1) they are too busy
2) the machine they have can only make small pieces, and not as finely finished
3) the main core boxes are WAY to big for their machine...the box is like 3 feet x 3 feet x 2.5 feet or something like that
4) A massive quantity of cores is needed
Jeff at the Foundry has used this one core maker for decades, I think his name is Raoul and he is the best of the best out here. And you're right about the sand and CO2 process that was the way it was explained to me but I somehow missed most of those details.
Oh and the Foundry can do petrobond but they get complaints from the motor court a few blocks down whenever they use it.....
It sounded as though it was outsourced but maybe I missed that. I had a core department that made my cores. A lot of my parts were core heavy and at times we could find down time or had to switch jobs waiting on the core room to finish a batch of cores. I understand how cumbersome this stuff can be and time consuming. The hot box method could only produce so many at a time in the drying oven so it could bog down. Although the majority of my parts were rammed by hand we had large equipment that was rather noise that could pump out cores like this sometimes we even used them for green sand molds. There are very few foundries left around this area and there were no sources for cores out of house so we had to make whatever we needed. Part of being what we called a wheelbarrow foundry, That killed me when I was approached to make the rotor head castings for the Blackhawk/Seahawk. The cores were humongous even for my equipment. I also didn't like to deal with such critical flight safety parts the liability was just to great.
The petro bond uses oil instead of water as a bonding agent and can gas off we also introduce a little sulfur into the mix which is probably what people complain about. I am assuming they don't do alloys like manganese bronze what a smell that stuff gives off and messy to pour. LOL
Has anyone priced out the cost to do an engine build with all new parts?
There is so much variance on what this would cost it's not even funny. "All new parts" could mean everything from QSC Biral cylinders to Mahle Motorsports stuff. In fact, you will find that a build on one of my cases has the identical costs as if you based it on a used case - minus machining charges, that is.
You could build with all in-spec used stuff, or you could build with the best of the best new, which means your build totals could be 15K on the low end and 100K on the high end. Really up to you..
Without further ado, here are the latest castings. These represent 3+ years of work and the surface finish is amazing, just like high end cookware. I was not happy with the last round, and we have finally perfected these castings to the point they are ready to be mass produced.
My castings are better than the Porsche castings in every single way. An I am not bragging either. The materials are better, the finish is better, and the case when machined blows the doors off anything the factory ever came up with.
I wanted the best possible case for my customers and I was more concerned with it being the BEST versus it being the FASTEST PRODUCED.
Thanks to all who stuck by me. These cases are going to heat treat and will be machined next week!
In other news, William is helping us make better chain boxes and cam towers - the design of which will be amazing and not just copies. We're really upping our game on new parts!
You heard that right.....what we call the Super Veloce (SV) is a new kind of motor we are currently in the design phase in conjunction with William. Here is what I can tell you at this point, keeping in mind that it will have its own thread very soon:
1. SV does not use the Taormina 3.6 Case, but is a flat 6 motor with advanced architecture that fits in a 911 engine bay.
2. The 3.6 case is a separate production line and we'll obviously be making tons of those independent of the SV
3. The SV is an approximately 125HP per liter motor
4. SV has a different fan, differen chain boxes, and different cam towers than a normal 3.6
5. SV will be almost exclusively be offered only to reputable builders (i.e. Jeff Gamroth, etc) because it will require special skills and attention to detail to build it.
6. SV, as an example, will feature a rod length not possible in any Porsche engine.
7. SV spins to 9K RPM
8. Oh yeah, it's air cooled.
The Super Veloce answers the question - "what would an air cooled motor look like if Porsche was still developing it" and also, what if we were not constrained by the original case and architecture. It will cost a lot more than a normal Taormina 3.6 case - street prices for the case alone are expected to run $20K, while completed engines should run around $125K, but there will be nothing at all like it on planet earth, that's for sure.....
If you think the 964/993 cases are bad... was talking to shop this week, i guess the mezger water cooled cases are 'ok' but not great, but, the 991 GT3 cases are a mess. Need complete rework when they build large motors on them.
Regarding builders, it seems Rothsport is building a ton of these big motors, shop near me has one going in a car soon, and he's doing the engines for emory which is basically a short 964 motor with all the tricks. If you wanted a turn key write check that's a good place to start, just close your eyes though when you write the check... there are others that have a lot of experience with these.
That case pic has me seriously thinking. Starting a 2.7L build that I will spend more $ case + machine work than one of these LOL... But get a build going for my 964. Full bespoke from scratch.... hmmm....
Oh BTW, on the heads for these, got some feedback from one of these builders on engine dyno testing that boat tailing did little to nothing for power on these motors, and, that those huge $ custom heads were good for a handful of HP, better to just rework existing heads and spend the $ elsewhere... Any feedback on that??
08-03-2019, 01:39 PM
