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Less dust isn't worth putting **** pads on your car for. On the street, the OEM perform admirably. Even on track they work OK. I see no reason to complicate things by "upgrading" to cheaper and more compromised pads for street use.
“Low dust” pads that brands sell are a myth. I’m sure that in a lab environment they are able to prove they produce less dust, but the amount that shows up in your wheels will be identical to the naked eye.
“Low dust” pads that brands sell are a myth. I’m sure that in a lab environment they are able to prove they produce less dust, but the amount that shows up in your wheels will be identical to the naked eye.
Since all brake pads are ablative, I wonder whether the real benefit of different pads is just that 'that' vendors brake dust doesn't stick to the car as well as the other pad's dust does.
Could I negatively charge my chassis to repel brake dust? =D
“Low dust” pads that brands sell are a myth. I’m sure that in a lab environment they are able to prove they produce less dust, but the amount that shows up in your wheels will be identical to the naked eye.
This. I was foolish enough to try Hawks once on my wife’s Q7. Not only were they total garbage, but the dust was only minimally reduced.
“Low dust” pads that brands sell are a myth. I’m sure that in a lab environment they are able to prove they produce less dust, but the amount that shows up in your wheels will be identical to the naked eye.
There is a difference. it's what sticks to the rim and how easy it comes off is major difference I care about, not how much dust it produces, but what it's made out of should affect the dust produced as well. Hawk race pads are also like dust factories, and it sticks like crazy to rims IMO.
There is also how much of the rotor it eats under braking and throws on your rim. Hawk race pads are brutal on rotors, whereas by comparison carbotech are very nice. It's the molten hot rotor particles that really suck to get off rims, and all pads cause rotor particles to be thrown on the rims and the side of your car, even luxury street pads, but some pads are far better than others. So there definitely is a noticeable difference with dust on the rims with carbotechs vs hawks of similar friction co.
I just put hawk blues on my street car end of last year. Half a day of track use and it turned my front gold rims completely dark grey, like a coal miner in a movie. I remember thinking last fall jesus... i forgot how bad these were for dust. Carbotechs XP8s never did that, slight discoloring after a day of track use.
There are also noticeable differences between street pads for dust that accumulates on the rims. My daily driver got a decent amount of dust from the OE bmw pads. I don't get any dust accumulation on my rims with the AM replacement pads I put on.
Low dust is not a myth. I went for 2 years with OEM pads on the street on my GT350. The dust is insane. Even Ford said when the introduced the car that the rims had to be black because of the amount of dust their pads produced, but the braking was phenominal so they dind't care. So I lived wtih it as I said, cleaning them EVERY time I parked it. Then put on the PowerStop Z26 and I can actually drive the car and park it and skip cleaning the rims if I want to. The difference in dust is huge. And the street braking performance is nearly the same, especially once fully broken in. I'll switch back to OEM if I go to a DE day. Changing pads on that car is really easy. How is it to change on the GTS?
Contact KNS Brakes: KNS Brakes
You can email or call them and they will work with you and answer all your questions. Good folk.
Ferodo 2500 might be a good choice...
Originally Posted by KNSBrakes
Hi All
FYI it often is hard to catalog brakes on newer cars esp. brands like Porsche where there are many different models and the brakes can vary quite a bit or sometimes barely at all and it's not like Porsche is volunteering that information.
This case is fairly tricky as there are 2 'shapes' that differ by only 3 mm and the backing plates are even closer/the same/FIT - so the track guys almost never know/don't care.
As a note - the standards for brakes are the FMSI D# - and most catalogs indicate that the GT4 uses a D1741 - 65mm pad depth as shown below. This pad is also used on several 911 models
Hawk This is Hawk HB905 - FMSI D1741. 65mm depth
Pagid 4908 - 65 mm Depth dim listed (what the pad sweeps on the disc)
The 718 GT4 pad is very close but slightly different and is not yet cataloged very well.
The correct Hawk and Pagid diagrams are below - Hawk even lists an FMSi D1773 but I cannot 'find' or correlate that FMSI # yet. You can see the backing plate is the same - but the material is cut short by a few mm on that inner radius. The depth is 62 mm vs 65 mm
None the less - Hawk made both - so the correct one is available.
Pagid does as well but in race pads only so not for the OP.
We would have likely made the same error - so thank you for the post and call. We now have to figure out which cars get the D1741 - and which get the D1773 (which I think is incorrect)
Ken
Originally Posted by Hinz Motorsport
For a 2021 GT4 the pad part #'s are as follows:
Hawk: HB848 Front and HB850
Carbotech: CT1741 Front and CT1740 Rear
Ferodo: FCP4664 Front and FCP4665 Rear
PFC: 1773 Front and 7727 Rear
Don't recommend Hawks for anything but street use which is fine in this case. The Ferodo DS2500's as mentioned above are out of stock pretty much everywhere right now, and Europe is on summer holiday until the end of the month. PFC doesn't offer the z-rated compound in this pad shape. Not as familiar with Carbotechs.
Originally Posted by Archimedes
Wait, so Hawk sells a part that isn't what it says it is?! I'm shocked!
Terry, I'd take this fitment issue as a sign from the Gods, saving you from putting **** pads on your very expensive sports car. If you do still go with these, remember, the first time you get in the car with the brakes totally cold, start braking 30 feet earlier than normal so the car stops in time. Even if just backing out of your driveway. Assume the brakes will do almost nothing on the first cold stop, work poorly on the second, and then by the third time you use the brakes they will actually stop the car. Not with any level of power or feel, but the car will stop reasonably close to what you would expect a car to do.
Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam
Low dust is not a myth. I went for 2 years with OEM pads on the street on my GT350. The dust is insane. Even Ford said when the introduced the car that the rims had to be black because of the amount of dust their pads produced, but the braking was phenominal so they dind't care. So I lived wtih it as I said, cleaning them EVERY time I parked it. Then put on the PowerStop Z26 and I can actually drive the car and park it and skip cleaning the rims if I want to. The difference in dust is huge. And the street braking performance is nearly the same, especially once fully broken in. I'll switch back to OEM if I go to a DE day. Changing pads on that car is really easy. How is it to change on the GTS?
Thanks for all the comments above guys.
As far as my comments regarding this ...........
To each their own as it's your car and your money so do whatever makes you happy.
Thanks to KNS brakes for all your Help on the Hawk pads for the 2021 GT4 ...
Attention Coby Shield at KNS brakes,
Well buddy I just left Porsche of Nashville and talking with Nick (Shop Foreman) that's been working on Porsche vehicles for Plus 20-Years.
He has done all the changes/work on my 2021 GT4 Porsche that I had requested.
He is a perfectionist I come to find out recently so I'm well pleased he was the only Tech assigned to my GT4.
This morning I stopped by to talk with Al the Service Manager and also had the opportunity to speak with Nick in person on my GT4.
He did ask me what was the deal with the Hawk Ceramic pads and the correct fitment.
I told him what you found out from talking with Hawk the Manufacturer and that he was correct the 1st set of front Hawk pads were for the Porsche 911 Turbo as he thought.
I also explained to him that the salesman at Tire Rack actually told me what he was told on the 1st Hawk front pads in regards to the Part #.
The Tire Rack didn't know the correct part # and in-fact when I called and explained the whole story to customer assistance.
They looked for the correct part # and that number is not in their computer.
Supposedly it will get added after I explained what the mix-up was between part numbers for the Porsche 911 Turbo and the 2021 Porsche GT4 per Hawk Manufacturing.
(The Tire Rack did have the wrong Hawk Pads picked-up and did a credit back to me)
Before I complete this Post I want to once again reach-out and offer my (Sincere Gratitude & Thanks) to Coby Shields at KNS Brakes for all your Assistance & Help.
.
Anyway I'm going to now post some pictures for those that at some point in time might be looking for Hawk Ceramic Pads for their 2021 GT4 or Spyder.
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My Hawk pads have lasted longer than any other pad I've owned. Purchased them six years ago and they still hold down a plastic drop cloth when painting things around the house.
Terry, how long have you been driving on these pads? What's your final opinion on them? Is there significantly less brake dust? And if so, is it worth the loss (if any) of stopping power?
Terry, how long have you been driving on these pads? What's your final opinion on them? Is there significantly less brake dust? And if so, is it worth the loss (if any) of stopping power?
Gonna be hard for him to compare, given it does not appear that he’s taken possession of the car and driven it in stock form. So, in this case ignorance might be bliss.
Terry, how long have you been driving on these pads? What's your final opinion on them?
Is there significantly less brake dust? And if so, is it worth the loss (if any) of stopping power?
Short answer is I Do-Not have the GT4 yet.
I will be posting on my Main-Dedicated-Thread that I just provided the link to you on what I think of the Hawk-Performance-Ceramic brake pads.
And since you ask me I'll reply by saying the following.
There will be No-Doubt on what I think of the Hawk pads and since you don't know me.
You'll either take my word for what I say next or not that's up to you.
When anyone ask me what I think on anything I Always-always try my very best to give that person a Straight-Forward, No-Bull-$hit answer.
And that's ^^^ exactly what I'll do in regards to the Hawk pads in this Thread.
Originally Posted by Archimedes
Gonna be hard for him to compare, given it does not appear that he’s taken possession of the car and driven it in stock form. So, in this case ignorance might be bliss.
Guys,
I don't know about (ignorance) might be bliss.
I choose not to try to convince anyone else as to what they spend their monies on.
And the Hawk Ceramic Performance pads fall into that for sure.
Don't like them ???
Simple don't buy them.
See my comments above to where I stand on those ..............
Terry
Last edited by tigerhonaker; 08-30-2021 at 01:28 PM.
08-12-2021, 05:43 PM
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