lee_337

I can't speak for others, but I feel that they have known about this for some time, there are several solutions, I don't understand why a pragmatic statement and solution is not forthcoming. I owned a Focus RS, there were problems with the head gasket, like this issue, it did not affect all cars. Ford released a recall, they stated what the problem was, what the procedure would be for addressing the issue and how long it would take, and that they would be providing loaner cars while the work was being performed.

You are correct that having different solutions for customers depending on their acquisition status is concerning. More disappointing has been the feeble communication. What I take from "working very diligently towards the technical solution" is that the problem is either bigger than they are disclosing, or they are gaging the response and weighing their options instead of offering a solution.

Although this is a new power plant for Porsche, it is somewhat derivative from existing offerings. The fact that a solution for a problem that by their description "the connecting rods installed in the engine of your vehicle may not meet Porsche specifications" sounds pretty simple, however there is not really a lot more detail offered. It is not like the internal combustion engine is as complicated as a quantum computer, by dithering, I find it troubling are there issues with other components, is there another shoe to drop?

The fact that there is an issue, while less than optimal, my issue is additional risks, and the comment made earlier by another person (StopSaleCGTS) that their sales associate could sell their car in 48 hours is they don't want it, is also the feeling I get from my dealership, which also adds to my unhappiness with the situation.

Jeff Jones

You've said this a few times, can you share what makes you feel this way? I may be looking at it the wrong way, but it seems that Porsche discovered this on or around the date they stopped using the potentially defective part. I believe that was ~ March 5th and they continued making cars after that date that are not impacted.

lee_337

I think your dates are correct. It seems that for an organization as large as Porsche, for a seemingly straightforward issue should be able to come up with a better solution than, we will let you know, in a months time.

Denny Swift

Does anyone know what’s involved with changing the connecting rods? I’m thinking that it could be done fairly easily from the bottom without dropping the engine. It’s conceivable that they wouldn’t even need to remove the crank shaft. If so, it would be a straightforward procedure. I’m certainly not making light of this horrendous situation. And I really feel for all of you with impacted cars, I’m just speculating on the procedure. I’ve rebuilt engines and transmissions, but many years ago when technology was quite different. But replacing a connecting rod doesn’t necessarily require engine dismantling. I’m also speculating that even if they need to remove the engine to remove/replace the connecting rods, they would do everything from the bottom and not disassemble or rebuilt the engine. If that’s the case, I’d think the operation would be pretty simple and would in no way adversely affect the function or reliability of the engine. I can’t imagine that Porsche would direct their dealer-based mechanics to dismantle and rebuilt the affected engines. If that much work were involved, they surely would just send replacement engines. I’m just thinking out loud here. Does anyone know how involved it is to replace a connecting rod on these specific engines? It doesn’t seem like a difficult task if they can do it from the bottom (especially if they don’t need to remove the crank). However, if they need to do it from the top and remove the heads, yeah, then it’s a huge job.

987SCoupe

Being a boxer design (flat), the cylinder banks directly oppose one another. Removing the connecting rods requires splitting the block into it's two halves. To do that requires first removing the engine. So, not simple in this instance, unfortunately.

Denny Swift

Do you know this for sure? Looking at the cut away views of the engine, it seems feasible to remove one rod at a time and rotate the crank for each successive rod. In an engine rebuild, you’d have to mate each piston to each cylinder which would require complete disassembly, but are you sure they need to split the case to just replace a rod? I’m not arguing. I don’t know. Just asking. Normally you’d never just replace a rod. If you need a new rod, you typically need a rebuild, but are you sure you can’t remove the rods from the sump?

4carl

replacing the con rods is a big deal pretty much a full disassembly of the engine. you have to remove the pistons from the top and press out the wrist pins to separate the rod from the piston. its open heart surgery. i cant believe their going to attempt it at the dealer or port. not to mention the potential for assembly screw ups.. much easier to just swap out the motor. I would lay money that no dealer has a tech that has rebuilt a new porsche engine. like everything in life theres a learning curve and no substitute for experience!!..carl

halfmonkey

Personally, I think it's odd that PAG would even entertain allowing dealers or port technicians to rebuild these engines. From what I see based on how PAG is addressing this issue so far, there are two variables. The 1st variable is whether or not you've taken delivery of your car yet or not. This is a variable because PAG has no control over how you've used your car since taking delivery so as I previously mentioned, PAG is probably playing it safe for delivered cars and replacing the engine.

The second variable as I see it is for the remaining cars, PAG is supposedly choosing to rebuild the engines. As much as I'd like to think PCNA holds their technicians to a higher standard than say Ford, I think the reality is closer to the fact that PCNA technicians are not much better than any other technician from any other manufacturer. Surely they're paid more but not sure if they're truly more qualified.

PAG has identified a total of 900+ cars of which 200+ are already in the customer hands. The remaining 700 cars supposedly may be repaired by rebuilding the engine and the variable then comes into play of the technicians around the world with different skill levels rebuilding 1 or 2 or maybe 3 engines in their lifetime, including these in question. I don't see why PAG/PCNA would take that risk to allow for such variances in technician skills to work on a liability and potentially create another liability while rebuilding the engine incorrectly.

Not to mention throwing in port technicians into the conversation as there's been talk that possibly the repairs will be carried out at ports.

Obviously, we all think all cars should just receive new engines and I'm sure PAG is still working over the numbers. Let's not forget what happened to the Ford Pinto. Engineers knew about the problem and brought it to the attention of the executives and they asked how much it would cost to re-engineer the fuel tank vs if we left it alone and paid out a claim. Their bean counters determined that paying out the claim would be cheaper than repairing all cars. The rest is history.

Garagemahal

Connecting rods is the heart of the motor. These boxer motors will require the case to be split and thus the cinders removed thus the heads removed thus the cam towers removed - you cannot get any deeper into a 7800 to 8000 rpm motor than this. It is simple no way one is going to replace rods in this motor without engine remove all and COMPLETE disassembly. This is starting over with the motor. Personally if I could have them place lighter and closely balanced rods and pistons I would opt for the rebuild (one I would personally manage) I would have a very awesome motor. I operate and maintain some very large high performance equipment and thus I am not the average joe. SO with the Porsche name on the line for customer demanding highest quality and performance, the only way this is going to happen - NEW MOTORS

Denny Swift

Ok, you’re right. I watched assembly videos. Major job. Really hard to believe that they would do that rather than sending replacement engines. I really feel for you guys.

Garagemahal

Is that your Spyder in the signature line? Nice ride enjoy!

UncleDude

What’s the minimum the factory could send the dealer in terms of a block? I’ve read “long block” and “short block” but don’t really know the difference.

Garagemahal

Short block is case with crank, con rods and pistons with cylinders.
Long block is case (pistons rods crank) with cylinders, heads and valve train (Cam Towers)

I would think that Porsche would go for the long block approach but its still going to take a lot of work to transfer the engine accessories and then tune/commission the new engine. But this would have factory valve set-up and the real critical “surgery” is done.

Garagemahal

More I put myself into PAG’s shoes, I would do the long blocks and call them “New engines” . This would lift a lot of the mechanical risks while reducing both sourcing and logistics risk associated with a “”whole engine” unit replacement and its cheaper and quicker. I am not sure the whole engine (completely dressed) is really going to be cheaper or quicker- why open yourself to having the core engines sitting there waiting for back ordered alternators?

Zhao

If they got them today in working order dealers would probably be fine... but 6 months from now, with the supply issues likely solved, heading into winter, with people now spending all their money on all the things they couldn't do pre-covid that do not involve buying sports cars,.. selling a 2021 they didn't spec with a raped engine when MY22s are out... Ya, I think it's a safe bet no dealer is going to sell a GT4 for ADM, and I bet no dealer is going to sell a tainted GTS without a hefty discount. It's not GT3 difficult to buy a GT4, and it's not GT4 difficult to buy a GTS.


Agreed. As annoying as it would be to have everything unbolted and trusting a mechanic to reinstall it perfectly (he won't) any problem from that will not be a big deal, or even noticeable, and will almost guaranteed to materialize under warranty Not a big deal. Engine cracked open... no thx. It could take 60000km for a problem to happen from something done wrong in there and in GT Porsche years that translates to potentially 10-15 years when it's off whatever extended warranty they give it.