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We’ve had the 718 GT4 development finished for a while. Brakes done, Suspension done. Headers done, Valkyrie wing done. Dive planes done. The only thing left for that GT4 is the rear muffler and we needed to see how the 4RS was designed so we can make one rear section for both. And our carbon splitter finishing up now. We’re evaluating the Cobb AP and with that an intake package can be looked atl
Lots of goodies for the 718 GT4 already available….
Any more developments still in work for the GTS 4.0 and GT4 regarding the rear muffler and or any intake manifold or TB upgrades?
I think we are in the final countdown to the GT4 rear muffler being released
Doug, you and I have exchanged many PMs, as well as post in the forum, so you know my question does not come with any kind of sarcasm or a derogatory tone . . . .
I am curious why you did not just jump into a 4RS?
Looks like you have aesthetically tried to build an RS, and I know how much time and effort you spent trying to get more out of your GT4 engine performance.
Perhaps it is the fact that you spent so much time and money upgrading your GT4 that you did not want to give it up to move into a 4RS??
Doug, you and I have exchanged many PMs, as well as post in the forum, so you know my question does not come with any kind of sarcasm or a derogatory tone . . . .
I am curious why you did not just jump into a 4RS?
Looks like you have aesthetically tried to build an RS, and I know how much time and effort you spent trying to get more out of your GT4 engine performance.
Perhaps it is the fact that you spent so much time and money upgrading your GT4 that you did not want to give it up to move into a 4RS??
Avera
All good and yeah, I've definitely spent a lot of time, effort and money enhancing the performance of the base GT4 platform. At this point the cars performance envelope is such that there is likely very little difference between my car and a stock 4RS...
When I purchased my GT4 I made serious efforts to get an allocation on a 4RS; however, dealers where stuck on $80k+ markups and I simply was not interested in spending ~$300k for a 718 (still not interested in spending that much)... Given the massive price difference, I simply allowed myself a fairly robust budget to reduce the performance gap while spending a lot less than what dealers wanted for the 4RS. Even though the market has softened on the 4RS and allocations can be had for much less today, I still am ahead on my spending when I consider what a GT4RS would cost me today vs the total cost of my car today.
Keep in mind that some of the changes I have made I would have wanted to make on an RS had I purchase one... The MCS coilovers and exhaust modifications would have likely been in the cards, and therefore do not really factor into the cost equation.
Another benefit the GT4 offers is the lack of the air intake box right behind my head... while this was an attractive feature of the 4RS initially, I think the constant noise would ultimately result in my driving the car less, and therefore enjoying the car less. I'm seeing this being realized with very few 4RS sightings on the road vs GT4 (which I do see from time to time).
I have almost zero interest in resale value but do look at how much my enjoyment costs... I think the $$/smile factor is simply higher with my car than what I would have ended up with had I purchased a GT4RS at the market prices... Sell me a 4RS at MSRP and we might be having a different conversation.
All good and yeah, I've definitely spent a lot of time, effort and money enhancing the performance of the base GT4 platform. At this point the cars performance envelope is such that there is likely very little difference between my car and a stock 4RS...
When I purchased my GT4 I made serious efforts to get an allocation on a 4RS; however, dealers where stuck on $80k+ markups and I simply was not interested in spending ~$300k for a 718 (still not interested in spending that much)... Given the massive price difference, I simply allowed myself a fairly robust budget to reduce the performance gap while spending a lot less than what dealers wanted for the 4RS. Even though the market has softened on the 4RS and allocations can be had for much less today, I still am ahead on my spending when I consider what a GT4RS would cost me today vs the total cost of my car today.
Keep in mind that some of the changes I have made I would have wanted to make on an RS had I purchase one... The MCS coilovers and exhaust modifications would have likely been in the cards, and therefore do not really factor into the cost equation.
Another benefit the GT4 offers is the lack of the air intake box right behind my head... while this was an attractive feature of the 4RS initially, I think the constant noise would ultimately result in my driving the car less, and therefore enjoying the car less. I'm seeing this being realized with very few 4RS sightings on the road vs GT4 (which I do see from time to time).
I have almost zero interest in resale value but do look at how much my enjoyment costs... I think the $$/smile factor is simply higher with my car than what I would have ended up with had I purchased a GT4RS at the market prices... Sell me a 4RS at MSRP and we might be having a different conversation.
Doug
As always, excellent explanation that makes perfect sense . . . the cabin 'noise' factor associated with the 4RS perplexes me at this point given I have not driven in one. As you allude to, the 'intoxicating' sound out of the box seems - for many - to have proven a real 'headache.' I love engine and exhaust acoustics, but have no idea where the 4RS would fall with respect to my tolerance level???
I agree with Doug. His car looks great. The value of a optioned out 4RS with crazy ADM with tax at $300,000 not worth it for everyone. Tasteful mods on a regular GT4 goes a long way to closing the gat between the cars. Probably just a 2 plus second gap at our track.
I got a great deal on my 4RS spec, which was only $171,000, basically full value for my GT4 trade, and the $100K+ tax credit. No WP, Mags, or PCCBs, so it was a no brainer for me. Extra money spent on Kline inconel cat back, Apex wheels, suspension bits, AG battery, cabin insulation, and maybe ST carbon brake rotors. The value of the motorsport engine, 500 hp, the downforce, and a close ratio PDK were worth the price of admission.
I agree with Doug. His car looks great. The value of a optioned out 4RS with crazy ADM with tax at $300,000 not worth it for everyone. Tasteful mods on a regular GT4 goes a long way to closing the gat between the cars. Probably just a 2 plus second gap at our track.
I got a great deal on my 4RS spec, which was only $171,000, basically full value for my GT4 trade, and the $100K+ tax credit. No WP, Mags, or PCCBs, so it was a no brainer for me. Extra money spent on Kline inconel cat back, Apex wheels, suspension bits, AG battery, cabin insulation, and maybe ST carbon brake rotors. The value of the motorsport engine, 500 hp, the downforce, and a close ratio PDK were worth the price of admission.
Yep, I know Doug knows what he wants and made calculated decisions on the topic . . . I also know Doug could afford the 4RS if that is what he really wanted.
The above acknowledged, my suspicion is that the GT4 vs 4RS 'debate' represents a situation where the whole adds up to more than the parts.
For example, I still feel the best car I have ever owned is the F87C. When BMW announced the release of the F87CS I thought the $20-30 increased cost was ludicrous . . . when I finally drove the F87CS I realized it was something VERY special that the 'parts' alone did not reveal. The whole added up to a lot more than the parts.
Is that true of the 4RS compared to a GT4? My suspicion is yes. Given your comments and fact that you pulled trigger on the 4RS, I suspect you feel the same.
Avera
P.S. I am going to go out on a limb and predict that, before it is all said and done, Doug ends up in a 4RS 🤣
Yep, I know Doug knows what he wants and made calculated decisions on the topic . . . I also know Doug could afford the 4RS if that is what he really wanted.
The above acknowledged, my suspicion is that the GT4 vs 4RS 'debate' represents a situation where the whole adds up to more than the parts.
For example, I still feel the best car I have ever owned is the F87C. When BMW announced the release of the F87CS I thought the $20-30 increased cost was ludicrous . . . when I finally drove the F87CS I realized it was something VERY special that the 'parts' alone did not reveal. The whole added up to a lot more than the parts.
Is that true of the 4RS compared to a GT4? My suspicion is yes. Given your comments and fact that you pulled trigger on the 4RS, I suspect you feel the same.
Avera
P.S. I am going to go out on a limb and predict that, before it is all said and done, Doug ends up in a 4RS 🤣
If a dealer called me up with an RS allocation (that I can spec) at MSRP and offered me a fair trade-in on my car then that would definitely give me some pause... but honestly my lust for the RS has worn off enough where I would simply not feel getting one would be a serious enough "upgrade" to justify breaking out a new set of knee pads for. My GT4 is nearly perfect right now - if only it spun to 9000RPM... (Yes, I'd love that engine in the back of my car )
I absolutely would love to have a SpyderRS to be a companion car to my GT4 and I am hoping that I do get a call one day for one (again at a reasonable price because things right now are silly again)... Who knows if that will ever happen.
For now... I'm really looking forward to what is on the very near horizon from Dundon I'm getting excited at the prospect of finishing off the GT4 in the sound and engine performance department
For example, I still feel the best car I have ever owned is the F87C. When BMW announced the release of the F87CS I thought the $20-30 increased cost was ludicrous . . . when I finally drove the F87CS I realized it was something VERY special that the 'parts' alone did not reveal. The whole added up to a lot more than the parts.
The F87C is a fantastic car. I had one for about a year and half. Personally for me the GT4 was a better all around car for me, but i would not say no to a F87C with the DCT as a second car.
If a dealer called me up with an RS allocation (that I can spec) at MSRP and offered me a fair trade-in on my car then that would definitely give me some pause... but honestly my lust for the RS has worn off enough where I would simply not feel getting one would be a serious enough "upgrade" to justify breaking out a new set of knee pads for. My GT4 is nearly perfect right now - if only it spun to 9000RPM... (Yes, I'd love that engine in the back of my car )
I absolutely would love to have a SpyderRS to be a companion car to my GT4 and I am hoping that I do get a call one day for one (again at a reasonable price because things right now are silly again)... Who knows if that will ever happen.
For now... I'm really looking forward to what is on the very near horizon from Dundon I'm getting excited at the prospect of finishing off the GT4 in the sound and engine performance department
Ok, please allow me to correct my last statement . . . before it is all said and done, Doug ends up in a 4RS or SpyderRS 🤣
As you know, I was at the top of that Dundon rear box waiting list along with you for quite some time . . . a year ago it was 'any day now.' My GT4 is long gone and the wait persists. I really hope Dundon does get that rear box for you to finish off the project.
For me, I am enjoying the hell out of my Macan GTS . . . and holding out for the G87C/CS/CSL. I think I will be driving the Macan for another year, or two. 😜
As you know, I was at the top of that Dundon rear box waiting list along with you for quite some time . . . a year ago it was 'any day now.' My GT4 is long gone and the wait persists. I really hope Dundon does get that rear box for you to finish off the project.
I guess now that the GT4RS muffler is done and for sale, you could just buy one and commission your own adapter to be made for the connection if you were motivated.
I guess now that the GT4RS muffler is done and for sale, you could just buy one and commission your own adapter to be made for the connection if you were motivated.
The 4RS muffler has been shipping for a while. The GT4 muffler enters at a different angle. We have a muffler for Doug in the works and have a few ways to get it all installed on the GT4. One is reusing 4RS overaxles and Cats for the guys buying headers and V11 muffler packages complete for their Gt4/Spyder. For those that have our GT4 headers currently we have an adapter package to get the 4RS muffler to work.
We will also be doing another tune on Doug's car for the addition of the muffler to extract the most power possible. And also testing the muffler and headers on a stock tune while we have his car to ensure all is happy.
More to come and thanks to Doug for his patience... This one took quite a while to get across the line and I'll be very happy to move this project from Development to production after a very long time!
The 4RS muffler has been shipping for a while. The GT4 muffler enters at a different angle. We have a muffler for Doug in the works and have a few ways to get it all installed on the GT4. One is reusing 4RS overaxles and Cats for the guys buying headers and V11 muffler packages complete for their Gt4/Spyder. For those that have our GT4 headers currently we have an adapter package to get the 4RS muffler to work.
We will also be doing another tune on Doug's car for the addition of the muffler to extract the most power possible. And also testing the muffler and headers on a stock tune while we have his car to ensure all is happy.
More to come and thanks to Doug for his patience... This one took quite a while to get across the line and I'll be very happy to move this project from Development to production after a very long time!
Thanks for responding, looking forward to hearing the result! None of the exhausts that I have heard for the GT4/GTS have sounded particularly inspiring, so hopefully you guys can change that!
Curious if the longer Over Axle pipes from the RS would affect performance for the GT4
05-07-2024, 12:17 AM
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