hf1

Frankly, I see these "studies" as pure marketing ploys to advertise focus and concern about lightness, while they keep adding pounds and size in real life. "Look we tried but unfortunately bean-counters didn't let us make it!" Maybe if they didn't make it so extreme, it would have made sense for actual driving purists instead of strictly targeting museum-level collectors. Only fake purists (like myself) need a windshield, a passenger seat, or a top, right? God forbid they include those and actually make an effort to make the car lighter by something other than chopping off essential pieces out of it. Imagine the weight savings if they took the wheels off, too. Museum pieces don't need those anyway.

It's like trying to make a pig lighter and faster by gouging its eyes and cutting its ears off first. Then wonder why that pig doesn't fly.

Btw, that Bergspyder still looks like a pig next to the old one in those pics. How about start with cutting size and using lighter components first -- then, if that's not enough, start cutting essential body parts. The Boxster prototype from the 90's would be a good start.

spyderphile

Nick, don't get your hopes high! As they learned, it is incredibly difficult to lose weight and making it road-worthy, since the underlying platform is heavy! Then there is price-point. You can't make a generic luxury platform that spins out multiple variations into a hardcore version without substantial re-architecture.

Then there is the market size. The market for frills-free, back-to-basic, purist roadster is tiny. Most buyers demand auto-top, PDK and auto rev-match (no offense intended). They want latest infotainment. Even the "regular" Spyders have limited market. Lotus couldn't make money selling Elise and Exige. Granted, while the concept of Elise/Exige is great, Lotus did a $hitty job in execution.

Porsche needs to start from clean sheet for a purist roadster. But, those days are over! Light weight composite materials are on the horizon. But, they are intended for electric platforms! ICE is done! Reduction in weight will be offset by electric powertrain! And, you wouldn't want one anyway!

Agree, this was a pointless exercise, wasting time, money and engineering resources!

Bottom line: Your 981 Spyder will stay with ya for good! After your time, your children will get to cherish!

Marine Blue

Agreed Henry, the mass market for sports cars really doesn’t seem to care about an ultra focused, lightweight, no frills sports car. The primary focus seems to be appearances, cool materials of construction, power and what its capable of on paper. It seems many Porsche GT cars see more time at cars and coffee than at the track which is also telling.

I don’t think the size of the 718 is too big but the amount of electronic nannies and luxury makes them heavy. Even worse, the 718 4 cylinder weighs more than the 6 cylinder predecessor which is a huge step backwards.

The 987 Spyder is borderline too much fluff and many were optioned with too much fluff IMO.

Porsche could certainly do more on these low production specials and I think buyers would pay for it. A good example of what they should focus on is lighting. HID technology is excessively heavy and Porsche makes it overly complicated by adding the mechanical hardware to move the beam. Why not provide a lightweight LED option that gives us the output we want without all the complicated mechanicals. Figure it out Porsche! Another very easy spot to those weight is the exhaust. S/S is extremely heavy, one of the heaviest metals available. Why not switch to titanium for the exhaust? Nothing complicated about it and perhaps buying in bulk will bring costs down. The average buyer would never notice or care but for a “focused” special the buyer would likely appreciate both.

n4v4nod

Afshin,
Not sure what fluff the 987.2 Spyder had... especially compared to any other modern water cooled Porsche. Full leather? It’s been documented that it’s lighter weight than the standard interior.

Now with the 981/718... I agree there is a lot of fluff and I’m guilty of going down that path.

Having owned the 981 Spyder, compared to the 987... it’s too big... hate this trend of all Porsche’s getting larger and larger each generation ... many say it’s due to safety regulations , which is BS because there are other modern sports cars that are smaller. Porsche needs to go back to basics... and I’m not talking about the latest artificial “T” models.



IMHO, Porsche isn’t showcasing the Bergspyder for no reason... I agree it was a marketing exercise. My guess is they are getting ready to debut the 718 Spyder/GT4 and want to build up some energy. It was made back in 2015, why debut it now? Yes, it’s the 50th anniversary of the original. I don’t buy the feasibility story... There is one simple reason it was dead from the beginning... lack of windshield = not legal in the USA on public roads. Lack of roof is the second reason. Being USA is Porsche’s largest sports car market that means it was dead before design pen hit the paper.

I do like that they did the 918 gauge cluster... reminds me of the 987.2 hoodless version... a nice signature detail.

Riz

Do you think Porsche with give the 718 spyder the same suspension as the next gt4 - based on the gt3? The 981 spyder did not get the Motorsport suspension.

Noah Fect

Yep. Once again Porsche steadfastly refuses to compromise their values by developing, marketing, and selling cars that people (a) want to buy; and (b) actually can buy.

Why isn't anyone capable of competing with these chuckleheads?

I know why Chevy can't take their market share away... because they're, well, a GM brand. But what stops, say, BMW or Mazda from launching a premium sports car brand that addresses the actual market: people who have a fair amount of money to spend, but not 918 money, and who aren't into gratuitous compromises.

I guess it comes down to the sad fact that there no longer is much of an actual market.

Z356

I don't expect the '718 Boxster Spyder' to get a front gt3 Motorsport suspension. The 'Boxster Spyder'
has NOT been a collaborative effort of the Motorsport division to date. As a contrast, PAG announced
at Rennsport last Fall that the 991.2 Speedster would be a joint effort of Porsche Motorsports, Style
Porsche & Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur:

"The new 911 Speedster is based on the current 991 Porsche and is painted in
a two-tone GT silver metallic and white. It was developed at Porsche Motorsport,
with help from design team Style Porsche and Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur, the
company’s custom-building house...The concept is the second collaboration between
Porsche Motorsport and Porsche Exclusive, the first being the Porsche 911 Turbo S
Lightweight from 1992. Porsche Exclusive built a few by itself, including the 911 Sport
Classic in 2009 and the 911 Speedster of 2010."

https://autoweek.com/article/luxury/...ort-reunion-vi

If the 718 Spyder does not get 'massage' by the Motorsports division it might be a blessing in disguise.
In the last two Spyders, the softer suspension due to the slight flexing on the 'boxster' chassis gave it
a more balanced/planted feeling which was felt in spirited driving in back roads and the track. Which
reminds me of the article done testing a 2012 Cayman R (not a Motorsport product like the gt4...but
no slouch) against a 2011/2012 987 Spyder in Excellence back in the day when Pete Stout was still
editor of that magazine:


Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale

spyderphile

Afshin, I consider 981 platform to be inherently heavy. Sure, it is light if you compare it to F-Type; but, that's a low bar! Think Elise/Exige. To get there, you need a platform that is fundamentally different. Porsche won't do it, because that market is very small. And, a typical Porsche buyer has different expectations. Again, no offense intended! Going forward, for next gen, you're looking at non-ICE architecture. That's a different beast altogether!

982 Spyder is expected to be a GT product. That is, it should share most of GT4's hardware. However, it should retain street-focus. So, there will continue to be differences with respect to GT4.

Navano, can you name a contemporary sports car that is lighter than a 981/982 with the same performance envelope, driving dynamics and experience, practicality, and reliability? I do agree that T models (911 and Boxster/Cayman) are bogus! But, congratulations to those who own one!

You're correct that the market for such products has greatly diminished. Despite that, other marques have tried to compete against Porsche head-on and, .... failed, in my view! No manufacturer seems to be able to replicate that perfect blend of styling, performance, dynamics, experience, reliability, etc. You've cars that can match or surpass any one of those parameters; but, not all. Can't think of any stand-out!

robcut1

10 Best Lightweight Sports Cars

• 2019 Mazda Miata | 2,339 lbs
• 2019 Fiat 124 Spider | 2,436 lbs
• 2019 Alfa Romeo 4C | 2,465 lbs
• 2019 Toyota 86 | 2,776 lbs
• 2019 Subaru BRZ | 2,789 lbs
• 2019 Porsche 718 Cayman | 2,944 lbs
• 2019 Porsche 911 | 3,153 lbs
• 2019 Volkswagen Golf R | 3,300 lbs
• 2019 BMW 2 Series | 3,380 lbs
• 2019 Honda Civic Si | 2,889 lbs

hf1

So, again, why is it hard (or impossible) for Porsche to build a sub-2500lb sports car (with a windshield, a passenger seat, and a top)? Porsche started as the smallest and lightest. What happened to that core ethos?

Marine Blue

The 987 Spyder doesn’t have a great deal of fluff but there are a few things Porsche could have done to further reduce the weight. For example removing additional sound insulation would have been nice. That would have brought more of the mechanical engine noises into the cabin. Also to me the exhaust was pure fluff, especially PSE. While I love how it sounds I rarely if ever drive with the valve closed so realistically the entire exhausts should have been a lightweight, valveless design that sounded good. For the price they charged this could have been easily accomplished.

The 981 chassis is about as large as Porsche should consider going on these cars. If they go larger they are clearly moving the mid engine platforms in the same direction as the 911 which IMHO is way too large.

It’s been over 8 years since I bought my Spyder and Porsche hasn’t produced anything convincing me to trade my Spyder. The T would be cool if they actually reduced its size, unfortunately that is impossible. When I did decide to add to the stable I went backwards, not forwards with the addition of the 964.

It could be a generational thing too, the younger generation may not care about the lack of road feel and understanding what the chassis is doing. Perhaps like video games they adapt to the controls and can more easily learn the correct inputs to make the car do what they want.

Z356

the_rider's response is in marked contrast to my earlier response to Riz's question.
Is the consensus among the cognoscenti here in this forum that the upcoming 982/
718 Spyder will be a 'GT' product meaning designed, developed & tested by Porsche
Motorsport Division like the previous gt4???? I am having a hard time thinking this
might be correct!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale

Mash

I personally feel that the 718 Spyder being a GT product is a plus.

The fact that Porsche stuck the 911 R under body diffuser on the 718 Spyder leads to the conclusion that the upcoming Spyder will be a focused GT product, unlike its predecessor’s.

Add to that, GT4 wheels with sticky cup 2 rubber. Probably also GT suspension.

All indications are leading to the 718 Spyder being the first time Porsche GT department takes control on this product.

I can understand some people are worried that it might lose its canyon drive appeal. However, I’m thinking that will only make it better! Better for canyon drives & much better for track use.

Time will tell, but I’m praying it turns out to be the first Spyder out of the GT department !!!

JIMMY JAMES

I know the GT4 and Spyder will both be sensational. But I also know they probably won't have the one change I want. A shorter ratio gearbox.

Z356

You are thinking PAG will not do that for reasons of fuel consumption & emissions testing government regulations?
I know that gearing was a big criticism of the 981 & gt4. But I don't remember the same type of criticism on the
gearing of the 987 Spyder. Does anyone care to comment on that?

Saludos,
Eduardo