The 718 EV Follow-on Discussion Thread
02-22-2023, 03:52 PM
#151
Those renderings look way too Japanese inspired for me on this platform.
02-22-2023, 03:54 PM
#152
Why does it "makes me literally sick to see a Tesla on a track"??? Seriously, I'm curious...does it feel like cheating or something or do you just don't like them for some bizarre political reasons?
You don't have to give up your gas car to get one either...gas cars will be around long after most of us are long gone, they aren't all being sent to the crusher at midnight on Dec 31 2034
You don't have to give up your gas car to get one either...gas cars will be around long after most of us are long gone, they aren't all being sent to the crusher at midnight on Dec 31 2034
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SoCal-NSX (02-22-2023)
02-22-2023, 03:57 PM
#153
I would be open to acquiring a 718 EV in the future, but I won't be an early customer. I think that the EV technology is becoming pretty well sorted out but the charging infrastructure is not. I'm a homeowner with a solar array that satisfies my household needs and can expand to handle my local EV needs but road trips are not yet what I would consider with any EV. Exciting technology for sure but it seems that we will have too many horses on the trail and not enough feed barns for the foreseeable future. And charging infrastructure is just one facet of the challenge. You have to expand the power generation capacity to run that charging infrastructure. I wonder if anyone has done the energy conversion of current daily gasoline burned to electrical energy equivalent to drive the EV consumers.
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borivojc (08-11-2023)
02-22-2023, 04:11 PM
#154
I would expect the base 718 EV to be cheaper than the Taycan but more expensive than the current base, maybe around $75k USD. I don’t expect the base 718 to be super fast in a straight line, as that has never been the goal of the model line, especially entry level Boxster/Cayman models. I’m guessing the base model would be around 350 hp with rear wheel drive. There will probably be more expensive AWD models too, and maybe even models with 911 Turbo like acceleration, but I’d expect such cars to have 911 Turbo like pricing coming from Porsche.
I highly doubt they’d give the base model a 3 second 0-60 time, it just wouldn’t make business sense and has never been the focus of the Boxster/Cayman line. Porsche loves to tempt us to spend more to get the next model up
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I highly doubt they’d give the base model a 3 second 0-60 time, it just wouldn’t make business sense and has never been the focus of the Boxster/Cayman line. Porsche loves to tempt us to spend more to get the next model up
.rumor is 400hp with a 3.2 sec 0-60 time with dual motor AWD.....according to article I saw yesterday
that would be an absolute banger....especially if they can keep it under $75-80K
02-22-2023, 04:15 PM
#155
Last edited by SoCal-NSX; 02-22-2023 at 04:17 PM.
02-22-2023, 07:44 PM
#156
Three Wheelin'
Maybe you should actually watch the video before dismissing it...There are multiple videos on YouTube of it passing multiple cars on all sorts of tracks....or better yet, go actually drive one
when one is 1/3 the price, much more practical daily driver, no more $75 gas station stops and hangs with cars like GT4's around the track, you can see why they are very appealing to many people....it is kinda bizarre to me to see this EV-phobia that some people have. like it is some sort of political statement rather than just what it is...a car with a new technology
Why does it "makes me literally sick to see a Tesla on a track"??? Seriously, I'm curious...does it feel like cheating or something or do you just don't like them for some bizarre political reasons?
It isn't a GT4, but it is a very capable and fun car....You should actually drive one, it will open your eyes.
You don't have to give up your gas car to get one either...gas cars will be around long after most of us are long gone, they aren't all being sent to the crusher at midnight on Dec 31 2034
as far as price... do you think it will be more expensive than the Taycan?
logic says other wise
A Taycan is basically an electric Panamera
A base Panamera is over $30K USD more than a base Cayman/Boxter .....
obviously there will be different trim levels and the prices will range, but just can't see Porsche trying to price it above the $86K Taycan
when one is 1/3 the price, much more practical daily driver, no more $75 gas station stops and hangs with cars like GT4's around the track, you can see why they are very appealing to many people....it is kinda bizarre to me to see this EV-phobia that some people have. like it is some sort of political statement rather than just what it is...a car with a new technology
Why does it "makes me literally sick to see a Tesla on a track"??? Seriously, I'm curious...does it feel like cheating or something or do you just don't like them for some bizarre political reasons?
It isn't a GT4, but it is a very capable and fun car....You should actually drive one, it will open your eyes.
You don't have to give up your gas car to get one either...gas cars will be around long after most of us are long gone, they aren't all being sent to the crusher at midnight on Dec 31 2034
as far as price... do you think it will be more expensive than the Taycan?
logic says other wise
A Taycan is basically an electric Panamera
A base Panamera is over $30K USD more than a base Cayman/Boxter .....
obviously there will be different trim levels and the prices will range, but just can't see Porsche trying to price it above the $86K Taycan
I like the Taycan and have driven one, and enjoyed it. But not enough to want one. I'm pretty sure it's more capable than a Tesla on a track, and I still was not impressed.
I'm no EV fanboi myself, but I don't get the vilifying disdain against EVs either. Sure, there are political factors involved towards the push as there are for many things. But ICE cars will continue to be in circulation for decades to come. I'm pretty sure I know where this fear mongering comes from.
02-22-2023, 08:08 PM
#157
It makes me sick because I genuinely do not like them. I live in what could be called the DC metro area and see them everywhere. They're hideous to my eyes, and I don't like the cult that follows them. I won't drive one because I GENUINELY DO NOT LIKE TESLAS. Sometimes it really is just as simple as that...
I like the Taycan and have driven one, and enjoyed it. But not enough to want one. I'm pretty sure it's more capable than a Tesla on a track, and I still was not impressed.
I bet you don't! Not for me at least. Politics has nothing to do with it, trust me.
I like the Taycan and have driven one, and enjoyed it. But not enough to want one. I'm pretty sure it's more capable than a Tesla on a track, and I still was not impressed.
I bet you don't! Not for me at least. Politics has nothing to do with it, trust me.
02-22-2023, 11:19 PM
#158
Drifting
I read an article today that the rumor is they will be a 3.2 second car and have an AWD dual motor with @400 hp
Of course the Cayman has always been more about handling than speed, but once you make it an EV, acceleration is a given.....only reason they will neuter it will be the usual reason so they don't stomp their big brother(911)
btw, the M3P isn't just a straight line muscle car killer...it is a very capable track car too
Here is video of a bone stock 2021 M3P hanging with a GT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEn2DJdS4Is
Cheap is relative ....a $75-80K base price is considered "cheap" in Porsche world......I guarantee you it will be less than a Taycan which has a base price of $86K
of course, the ADM will probably push it into GTS 4.0 territory
Of course the Cayman has always been more about handling than speed, but once you make it an EV, acceleration is a given.....only reason they will neuter it will be the usual reason so they don't stomp their big brother(911)
btw, the M3P isn't just a straight line muscle car killer...it is a very capable track car too
Here is video of a bone stock 2021 M3P hanging with a GT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEn2DJdS4Is
Cheap is relative ....a $75-80K base price is considered "cheap" in Porsche world......I guarantee you it will be less than a Taycan which has a base price of $86K
of course, the ADM will probably push it into GTS 4.0 territory
The reality is the fastest tesla time is slower than the GT4 time on teh ring, so if a 1000hp car can't beat a 400hp car, what does that tell you?
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02-23-2023, 12:52 AM
#159
As someone who was a very early adopter with a Tesla P85 (around # 2500th made) followed by a P100 and then the Model X, who now has no EVs in the garage I offer the following perspective in the debate of ICE v EV and Tesla v Porsche
EVs are inevitable. They have their place and offer a lot of convenience: charge at home, single pedal driving, low to no maintenance, lots of storage (except Taycan). Like it or not, car manufactures have no choice but to offer EVs. Many manufactures will go out of business because they are late to the party or their offering is so stale that no one will buy: BMW, Mercedes, come to mind here. The EV driving experience really is exceptional for 90% of our daily driving needs.
I wish people would stop quoting 0-60 as the benchmark to compare cars by. It is certainly fun to launch an EV for the first few times. Like REALLY fun! But for the consumer EVs coming out - and I lump Tesla in this category - these are utilitarian vehicles that lack personality. They are primarily grocery getters, commuters, and kid shuttles with a bunch of new electronic gimmicks like big screens and auto-pilot to keep us excited and distract us from the fact that these are not sports cars. Are they quick? Generally yes. Oddly the one benchmark no one quotes with EVs is their stopping distance.
Side note: to those who claim Porsche does not care or focus on 0-60 times, I highly encourage you to launch a Turbo or Turbo S. That power train is as close to an EV power band that you can get in an ICE vehicle that also happens to be a great every day driver.
Comparing Tesla to Porsche EVs is like comparing [insert major car brand] to Porsche. I have driven a Taycan 4S and a Taycan Turbo. The Taycan drive experience is fantastic, but it does not offer the convenience of a Tesla. All anyone has to do to understand what Tesla has done and why they are so successful at selling EVs is to charge at a non-Tesla charging station. The charging network is king and all other charging services pale in comparison to Tesla. While an amazing EV driving car, the Taycan is only a 4 seater and has no trunk space.
Which brings me to what I believe is the crux of the matter: members of this forum are likely biased towards Porsche. Many/most of us have multiple cars. Few of us use the Porsche in our garage as the daily driver. In 20 years, people will have a garage with a EV daily driver/grocery getter/commuter AND a kick A$$ Porsche EV for the weekend just like we do now. That Porsche EV will still cost 2X what the average EV costs, but it will still be such a better driver’s car.
Those of us lucky enough to still have an ICE Porsche will be paying a lot for Gas or the new Porsche alternative 0 carbon synthetic fuel so that we can still hear those glorious exhaust notes.
We traded in our Model X for a Cayenne GTS and I just completed installing a JCR exhaust on a 718 Spyder. I’m getting the most out of ICE while I still can but do regret not having an EV at the moment.
EVs are inevitable. They have their place and offer a lot of convenience: charge at home, single pedal driving, low to no maintenance, lots of storage (except Taycan). Like it or not, car manufactures have no choice but to offer EVs. Many manufactures will go out of business because they are late to the party or their offering is so stale that no one will buy: BMW, Mercedes, come to mind here. The EV driving experience really is exceptional for 90% of our daily driving needs.
I wish people would stop quoting 0-60 as the benchmark to compare cars by. It is certainly fun to launch an EV for the first few times. Like REALLY fun! But for the consumer EVs coming out - and I lump Tesla in this category - these are utilitarian vehicles that lack personality. They are primarily grocery getters, commuters, and kid shuttles with a bunch of new electronic gimmicks like big screens and auto-pilot to keep us excited and distract us from the fact that these are not sports cars. Are they quick? Generally yes. Oddly the one benchmark no one quotes with EVs is their stopping distance.
Side note: to those who claim Porsche does not care or focus on 0-60 times, I highly encourage you to launch a Turbo or Turbo S. That power train is as close to an EV power band that you can get in an ICE vehicle that also happens to be a great every day driver.
Comparing Tesla to Porsche EVs is like comparing [insert major car brand] to Porsche. I have driven a Taycan 4S and a Taycan Turbo. The Taycan drive experience is fantastic, but it does not offer the convenience of a Tesla. All anyone has to do to understand what Tesla has done and why they are so successful at selling EVs is to charge at a non-Tesla charging station. The charging network is king and all other charging services pale in comparison to Tesla. While an amazing EV driving car, the Taycan is only a 4 seater and has no trunk space.
Which brings me to what I believe is the crux of the matter: members of this forum are likely biased towards Porsche. Many/most of us have multiple cars. Few of us use the Porsche in our garage as the daily driver. In 20 years, people will have a garage with a EV daily driver/grocery getter/commuter AND a kick A$$ Porsche EV for the weekend just like we do now. That Porsche EV will still cost 2X what the average EV costs, but it will still be such a better driver’s car.
Those of us lucky enough to still have an ICE Porsche will be paying a lot for Gas or the new Porsche alternative 0 carbon synthetic fuel so that we can still hear those glorious exhaust notes.
We traded in our Model X for a Cayenne GTS and I just completed installing a JCR exhaust on a 718 Spyder. I’m getting the most out of ICE while I still can but do regret not having an EV at the moment.
Last edited by BrewKaiser; 02-23-2023 at 12:56 AM.
02-23-2023, 07:04 AM
#160
Three Wheelin'
But the part of it that can't be understated is how ****ing ugly they are. The looks have kept me disinterested even as friends have joined the cult... and then moved on lol. I guess they had to get it out of their system, but as obsessed as the couple of people I know have been with them, the novelty eventually wore off.
Because end of the day, THEY'RE BORING.
Any Tesla could be the star of a show called "Cars I don't care about".
Don't put much stock in a video chasing down another car on a track to 'prove' how good it is. Those videos are usually cringe and kinda embarrassing to me because they're often used to show how 'good' a car is, when it's a big difference in skill or motivation like your tesla video, or used to show how 'good' a driver is, when the spread in performance between cars is barely anything.
The reality is the fastest tesla time is slower than the GT4 time on teh ring, so if a 1000hp car can't beat a 400hp car, what does that tell you?
The reality is the fastest tesla time is slower than the GT4 time on teh ring, so if a 1000hp car can't beat a 400hp car, what does that tell you?
Back to Porsche, and my point that my disgust really is limited to Tesla right now, I'm fully confident that Porsche is going to build a fully electric car I will probably want at some point. I'm still not convinced that electric is the technology that will get us through the next 30 years, let alone eternity. It's still a finite resource we're relying on, it shouldn't take an army of scientists and politicians to figure that out...
If you pull the thread long enough what's truly inevitable is the nihilistic view that none of it matters. Humans are going to destroy the planet, we're just caught in a vice that is crushing all life on this planet slowly over the next hundred or a thousand years or so until it all dries up into a lifeless rock.
This is where my mind goes when I think about Teslas, THANKS GUYS.
02-23-2023, 07:25 AM
#161
I guess on the Nordschleife Tesla may even need a BIG powerbank to end the fast lap
.
I wish people would stop quoting 0-60 as the benchmark to compare cars by. It is certainly fun to launch an EV for the first few times. Like REALLY fun! But for the consumer EVs coming out - and I lump Tesla in this category - these are utilitarian vehicles that lack personality. They are primarily grocery getters, commuters, and kid shuttles with a bunch of new electronic gimmicks like big screens and auto-pilot to keep us excited and distract us from the fact that these are not sports cars.
I wish people would stop quoting 0-60 as the benchmark to compare cars by. It is certainly fun to launch an EV for the first few times. Like REALLY fun! But for the consumer EVs coming out - and I lump Tesla in this category - these are utilitarian vehicles that lack personality. They are primarily grocery getters, commuters, and kid shuttles with a bunch of new electronic gimmicks like big screens and auto-pilot to keep us excited and distract us from the fact that these are not sports cars.
Daily driving an i3 and very happy with it and that counts somewhere between 25% and 33% of all mileage I do, but when I need to commute "intercity" I cannot but pick one of my "earth destroyers" (pun intended) which is very fine and IMHO inevitable for still many years (to me, more than they're trying to let us buy).
Last edited by GT Omologata; 02-23-2023 at 07:39 AM.
02-23-2023, 02:19 PM
#163
Every driver's first time launching a legitimate EV is filled with astonishment. I can't imagine what the Lucid Air Sapphire is like.
The laws of physics will eventually prevail and all performance oriented EVs' 0-60 times will be within tenths of one-another. Too close to make any discernible difference. This will likely carry over to the quarter mile very quickly.
The EV comparisons will skew more to: quarter mile times; apex braking and acceleration performance; battery durability, recovery and recharge times; vehicle weight and displacement/location; and a whole host of metrics we have yet to deem as salient to this discussion.
It would be interesting to see track statistics on say the Mission R vs a GT [whatever #] RS and how the driver must adapt and change driving behavior between track focused EVs and ICEs.
It's unfortunate that this thread has regressed to arguments over personal preferences and has not covered what performance EVs could be or what we should be thinking about for the years ahead. I totally agree that the EV panacea envisioned by our "leaders" is fraught with pitfalls and based on incoherent assumptions and "save our planet" bandwagon arguments, but this also does not diminish what EVs offer and what they actually do well. We might as well be arguing horse vs ICE, or manual vs PDK. We each have our preference, that's what makes us human. We should also recognize and applaud those who find what makes them happy for the significant investment they have made. Like it or not, we are at another technological paradigm shift as it relates to motor vehicles.
I read this thread hoping to find out what others think track minded performance oriented EVs will bring. Here are some of my thoughts about this
Brakes: We will spend a lot more money reigning in cars that are now 600-1000 lbs heavier. I will be particularly interested to see how Porsche and other manufacturers will reconcile the EU regulations restricting brake dust vs the extra performance needed. I understand the impact that tires play in braking performance, but tires are also evolving to combat environmental pollutants and I suspect these changes do not bode well for handling.
Sound Enhancement: As much as some of us currently despise fake "engine/motor" noises piped into our ears, the fact remains that anything that enhances our connection with the car and the inputs we are giving it will correlate to increased enjoyment. Just like we pay thousands on exhausts now, we will find ways to enhance electric motor noises in a way that gives positive feedback
Performance mods: will we be swapping capacitors for more boost?
Real Time Data: All modern cars are 4 wheeled smart phones. Will we connect via a phone app to our car on track days to get real time statistic on a lap time and make adjustments to EV parameters on braking, battery output, suspension, tire pressure. I'm sure we will download track or route specific configurations that maximize our results.
Recharge rates: I'm sure we will be hacking our cars to reduce recharge times and maximize battery performance under certain conditions.
The laws of physics will eventually prevail and all performance oriented EVs' 0-60 times will be within tenths of one-another. Too close to make any discernible difference. This will likely carry over to the quarter mile very quickly.
The EV comparisons will skew more to: quarter mile times; apex braking and acceleration performance; battery durability, recovery and recharge times; vehicle weight and displacement/location; and a whole host of metrics we have yet to deem as salient to this discussion.
It would be interesting to see track statistics on say the Mission R vs a GT [whatever #] RS and how the driver must adapt and change driving behavior between track focused EVs and ICEs.
It's unfortunate that this thread has regressed to arguments over personal preferences and has not covered what performance EVs could be or what we should be thinking about for the years ahead. I totally agree that the EV panacea envisioned by our "leaders" is fraught with pitfalls and based on incoherent assumptions and "save our planet" bandwagon arguments, but this also does not diminish what EVs offer and what they actually do well. We might as well be arguing horse vs ICE, or manual vs PDK. We each have our preference, that's what makes us human. We should also recognize and applaud those who find what makes them happy for the significant investment they have made. Like it or not, we are at another technological paradigm shift as it relates to motor vehicles.
I read this thread hoping to find out what others think track minded performance oriented EVs will bring. Here are some of my thoughts about this
Brakes: We will spend a lot more money reigning in cars that are now 600-1000 lbs heavier. I will be particularly interested to see how Porsche and other manufacturers will reconcile the EU regulations restricting brake dust vs the extra performance needed. I understand the impact that tires play in braking performance, but tires are also evolving to combat environmental pollutants and I suspect these changes do not bode well for handling.
Sound Enhancement: As much as some of us currently despise fake "engine/motor" noises piped into our ears, the fact remains that anything that enhances our connection with the car and the inputs we are giving it will correlate to increased enjoyment. Just like we pay thousands on exhausts now, we will find ways to enhance electric motor noises in a way that gives positive feedback
Performance mods: will we be swapping capacitors for more boost?
Real Time Data: All modern cars are 4 wheeled smart phones. Will we connect via a phone app to our car on track days to get real time statistic on a lap time and make adjustments to EV parameters on braking, battery output, suspension, tire pressure. I'm sure we will download track or route specific configurations that maximize our results.
Recharge rates: I'm sure we will be hacking our cars to reduce recharge times and maximize battery performance under certain conditions.
Last edited by BrewKaiser; 02-23-2023 at 02:47 PM.
02-23-2023, 02:37 PM
#164
02-23-2023, 04:10 PM
#165
Don't put much stock in a video chasing down another car on a track to 'prove' how good it is. Those videos are usually cringe and kinda embarrassing to me because they're often used to show how 'good' a car is, when it's a big difference in skill or motivation like your tesla video, or used to show how 'good' a driver is, when the spread in performance between cars is barely anything.
The reality is the fastest tesla time is slower than the GT4 time on teh ring, so if a 1000hp car can't beat a 400hp car, what does that tell you?
The reality is the fastest tesla time is slower than the GT4 time on teh ring, so if a 1000hp car can't beat a 400hp car, what does that tell you?
I hate to burst the anti-Tesla bubble but same driver, same track the M3P beat both the 718 CS and 981 GTS and was 0.50 seconds slower than a GT3 RS .
Meanwhile The Plaid has the 3rd fastest lap at Laguna Seca for production cars also btw...
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/top-gear-track
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/butto...nfiguration-13
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988
I could go on
Not here saying the Tesla's are better, but let's not try and act like they are only good at going fast in a straight line....and anyone who says these cars are boring has most likely never even sat in one and for sure has never driven one
Instead of hating on Tesla's people should be happy that they are pushing the boundaries on what EV's are capable of instead of just making boring commuter cars....I don't care for Elon, but I do like what he has done with the EV.
Their heavy four door sedans and showing they can hang on any track, I can't imagine what their roadster is going to do.
I'm loving my M3P that I recently picked up, my only regret is that it took me so long to realize what I was missing....for the money, you won't find a more fun and capable four door daily driver....doesn't mean I stopped loving my 718 cuz you can appreciate both with an open mind.
