ASK THE COACH
02-20-2014, 10:41 PM
#1561
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You guys are correct, I guess. Usually, with a new client, I ask for & get a deposit up front (especially if I am buying airline tickets for our engagement). I made the mistake of not doing this in this case because I was already going to be at this particular track with other clients anyway.
Yep.
This guy in real life is a pretty big wheeler-dealer. Perhaps he is one of those people who gets off screwing what are consiodered the "little guys" who have no recourse & no formal contract.
That said, I didn't post this to whine. I posted it so everyone is on the same page regarding who does what. This person is fairly new to coaching & to motorsports, and yet was at the track with a small team, whose other drivers brought along another experienced coach, so claiming "ignorance" is not valid.
This guy in real life is a pretty big wheeler-dealer. Perhaps he is one of those people who gets off screwing what are consiodered the "little guys" who have no recourse & no formal contract.
That said, I didn't post this to whine. I posted it so everyone is on the same page regarding who does what. This person is fairly new to coaching & to motorsports, and yet was at the track with a small team, whose other drivers brought along another experienced coach, so claiming "ignorance" is not valid.
That said, I don't "qualify" my clients. Big guys or regular joes, everyone gets the same info and the same value, hopefully. If they get it, they pay. Most, gladly.
This is probably the easiest fix. Especially with a new client.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
02-20-2014, 10:43 PM
#1562
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You may be right, but there were certainly no signs of it. I am pretty well trained in reading body language, etc. Even when we parted and he asked me to send th einvoice, he'd send the check the next morning, etc all verbal and non-verbal cues were green... So I was shocked, surprised, stunned 5 days later by his email.
02-20-2014, 10:44 PM
#1563
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I did not talk with the shop after the fact. I thought that would be unseemly in the context of their client owing me money. Who knows? he may have stiffed them, too. Or maybe he just gagged at their invoice and took it out on me
02-20-2014, 10:46 PM
#1564
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Ping them, perhaps they can shed light. The shops I work with their clients are some of my best advocates, because the client has a better outcome when I'm working with them and want to do it MORE!
The whole thing is disappointing, for sure.
The whole thing is disappointing, for sure.
02-20-2014, 10:46 PM
#1565
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Peter, you're probably right. However, even on Day 2, he spoke briefly with the person who referred him to me, and spoke very highly of me & the experience he was having.
Bipolar maybe?
Bipolar maybe?
02-20-2014, 10:52 PM
#1566
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A shame... Focus forward!
02-21-2014, 04:17 PM
#1567
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02-21-2014, 04:43 PM
#1568
Drifting
Dave,
I know you don't want to hear it -- but I strongly suggest having a simple contract
that describes your company is hired (and not you personally)
and make sure you have isolation of your company and your personal finances
(even if just an LLC).
Any real lawyer will tell you anything signed can be legally ignored -- but it at least
sets the bar a little higher -- and with the contract with your company as opposed to you
it offers some level of financial protection for you.
I keep my "company" around just for ChumpCar if for no other reason.
While I have had good luck with all my drivers -- it would only take one
bad situation to endanger my family -- and I just can't have that.
Note: it might not even be initiated by a willing driver, their family could cause troubles.
Mike
I know you don't want to hear it -- but I strongly suggest having a simple contract
that describes your company is hired (and not you personally)
and make sure you have isolation of your company and your personal finances
(even if just an LLC).
Any real lawyer will tell you anything signed can be legally ignored -- but it at least
sets the bar a little higher -- and with the contract with your company as opposed to you
it offers some level of financial protection for you.
I keep my "company" around just for ChumpCar if for no other reason.
While I have had good luck with all my drivers -- it would only take one
bad situation to endanger my family -- and I just can't have that.
Note: it might not even be initiated by a willing driver, their family could cause troubles.
Mike
02-21-2014, 06:43 PM
#1569
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Dave
I have been in depos all day and just read this. I agree with the guy that said look forward as well as that you need a contract of some sort.
This may be nothing more than a big misunderstanding with the client not trully knowing what he was doing up front and now is meekly running a defensive game to avoid admitting they he did not understand the rules. Not sticking up for him just playing the advocate that I'm known for.
With this in mind and the extremely high quality of your post (not to mention coaching) I will send this over to my corporate attorney to put together a SIMPLE one page if possible contract that insures everyone is on the same page.
I agree with our brother from Austin that you need to distance yourself personally from all this as a legal shield, but more importantly for your own sanity.
Of course the best use in my experience for contracts is forcing each side to sit down and understand their obligations before the deal is inked. Something about an ounce of prevention. Now this said unfortunately with legal fees being what they are contracts are poor methods to force compliance frankly you will never win on a services contract at a legal fee that even makes it worth starting.
Should have you a contract late next week unless they are to busy fighting my fires right now. Never know what those lawyers do but love the results.
Btw thanks for not throwing me out when I forgot my checkbook at Hallet
I have been in depos all day and just read this. I agree with the guy that said look forward as well as that you need a contract of some sort.
This may be nothing more than a big misunderstanding with the client not trully knowing what he was doing up front and now is meekly running a defensive game to avoid admitting they he did not understand the rules. Not sticking up for him just playing the advocate that I'm known for.
With this in mind and the extremely high quality of your post (not to mention coaching) I will send this over to my corporate attorney to put together a SIMPLE one page if possible contract that insures everyone is on the same page.
I agree with our brother from Austin that you need to distance yourself personally from all this as a legal shield, but more importantly for your own sanity.
Of course the best use in my experience for contracts is forcing each side to sit down and understand their obligations before the deal is inked. Something about an ounce of prevention. Now this said unfortunately with legal fees being what they are contracts are poor methods to force compliance frankly you will never win on a services contract at a legal fee that even makes it worth starting.
Should have you a contract late next week unless they are to busy fighting my fires right now. Never know what those lawyers do but love the results.
Btw thanks for not throwing me out when I forgot my checkbook at Hallet
Last edited by Vonschmidt; 02-21-2014 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Spelling
02-21-2014, 08:57 PM
#1570
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Thread Starter
Thanks, guys 
Charles, of course I didn't . As I said, every client up to now has been a person of honor, whether they had a check book or not. In fact, I have 2 regular clients who don't like the messy invoice-at-the-track thing, so I always email it to them afterwards and they mail a check. No problem, easy peasy.
This individual is the one exception. Oh well. As the sheriff said in Cool Hand Luke: some men you just can't reach...
Charles, of course I didn't
. As I said, every client up to now has been a person of honor, whether they had a check book or not. In fact, I have 2 regular clients who don't like the messy invoice-at-the-track thing, so I always email it to them afterwards and they mail a check. No problem, easy peasy.This individual is the one exception. Oh well. As the sheriff said in Cool Hand Luke: some men you just can't reach...
02-24-2014, 08:28 PM
#1572
Gees, figure it out.
The way I understand the business model, you get the money up-front.
$200-$300 on the night-stand.
Use an envelope marked "gift" so there is no legal evidence of a business transaction, and of course, a red rose from 7-11 is a nice touch.
Tears and self-doubt optional.
BTW, VR... nice Avatar!
The way I understand the business model, you get the money up-front.
$200-$300 on the night-stand.
Use an envelope marked "gift" so there is no legal evidence of a business transaction, and of course, a red rose from 7-11 is a nice touch.
Tears and self-doubt optional.
BTW, VR... nice Avatar!
02-27-2014, 09:19 AM
#1574
Rennlist Member
Thanks, guys
Charles, of course I didn't . As I said, every client up to now has been a person of honor, whether they had a check book or not. In fact, I have 2 regular clients who don't like the messy invoice-at-the-track thing, so I always email it to them afterwards and they mail a check. No problem, easy peasy.
This individual is the one exception. Oh well. As the sheriff said in Cool Hand Luke: some men you just can't reach...
Charles, of course I didn't
. As I said, every client up to now has been a person of honor, whether they had a check book or not. In fact, I have 2 regular clients who don't like the messy invoice-at-the-track thing, so I always email it to them afterwards and they mail a check. No problem, easy peasy.This individual is the one exception. Oh well. As the sheriff said in Cool Hand Luke: some men you just can't reach...
02-27-2014, 09:51 AM
#1575
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I'll offer a different perspective. Getting past the emotions of this experience(which will fade), since this client was an outlier, is it really worth changing how you've been doing things? Sure, you can have a short contract or ask for a deposit up front, but in the bigger picture the drawbacks could be greater than the benefits.
