mikymu

Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes. Just the name and that abbreviation sound fantastic. What is not to like about the PCCB - it's new, light, less heat, minimal dust, last longer and oh, of course the god like stopping power. I was sold on PCCB when it first came out and bought my green RS with PCCB. I could not tell the difference on the street - PCCB vs conventional steel brakes until I barrel down turn 1 at Thunderhill trying to slow down the car from 135 mph .... OMG! I could not stop!? I step on the brake pedal so hard I thought I was going to yank my steering wheel off. It was one of the most scary track experience. Subsequently, I bleed the brakes and replaced with Motul and bed the heck out of PCCB - it was slightly better but nothing even close to the confidence inspiring stopping power of my M3's OEM steel brakes (one lousy piston caliper lol) with performance friction 01 pads. So for the past year, I say a prayer and give an offering to the track gods before each event hoping I can stop when I am suppose to. What I end up doing is brake way early or ridding on the brakes way before stopping zone to heat it up so it will bite. Needless to say, I will pass other then get caught up on braking zones

What is wrong these PCCB which was shaped on the same furnace that made the Greek gods? After some research, I found out there was nothing wrong with them. The problem lies in the cost. Each rotor cost as much as Paris Hilton's purse so no one in their right mind will use a proper track pads - including Dr. Porsche. You will have some angry customers when they find out it cost more than $10K to replace all 4 PCCB rotors after some track use with proper track pads.

I was not about to shoot myself in the foot by using aggressive pads on these PCCB. The only option other than go slower and stop early on the track is to replace them with steel rotors and aggressive pads.

So, what are the options for PCCB to steel rotor conversion? The good news is that there are several options now compare with one year ago. Brembo and stoptech make two piece floating rotors which are fantastic replacement options. But what about the 997 GT3 Cup cars - they have 380 mm front and 350 mm rear steel rotors which are the same diameter as my PCCB. After inspecting them some more, I decided to go with the Cup car solution since they been tested since 2005 on the track and cost less than other options.

OK, let's get started with this conversion. First of all, bleed your brakes while you are at it. OEM brake fluid is crap. I used Motul RBF 600 racing brake fluid. They work well and feels much better than OEM. Craig from Rennstore is a good source for these parts

Here is a picture of Motul brake fluid. I used a turkey baster to suck out the OEM brake fluid from the brake reservoir. Ignore the file ... it was for my toenail lol



The screen on top of the brake reservoir is PITA to remove. You have to twist and turn then yank on it hard to pull it out. You have to line up the open ends of the grooves on the brake reservoir with the filter screen. Take care not to spill brake fluid on the paint - they are like paint thinner



I used a pressure bleeder - much easier than manual pumping the brake pedal. Your wife will thank you



Start with the caliper furtherest from the brake reservoir and work your way in. Remember these Brembo caliper have 2 bleeder valve and you have to bleed each side. I wish the Motul brake fluid come in different color than OEM - this way you can easily tell when the new fluid start to come out



OK, now let's get the 997 GT3 Cup car rotors. When I inspect the Cup car, I noticed the rear rotors are one piece. It turns out they use 997 TT rear rotors so you can retain parking brake function and fits the wide body Cup car. I don't know if they fit narrow body GT3. They can be had from Suncoast for about $300 a pair - super cheap. The front Cup car steel rotors can be sourced from various Porsche race shops and I got my from Porsche Motorsport. Average price is around $2750 and it could be higher or lower depends on where you source the parts. Disclaimer from Porsche Motorsport: These front Cup rotors are designed for track use and not street.

Here are the parts number for the front Cup rotors

(1) 993 351 407 87 L/F Rotor
(1) 993 351 408 87 R/F Rotor
(2) 996 351 415 9A Front Brake Hat
(4) 900 075 010 03 Rotor Screw
(20) 964 351 437 81 Brake Bobbin
(20) 900 378 030 09 Attachment Bolt

Here is a picture of the parts necessary for the conversion. I chose Pagid yellow RS29 brake pads for the job




OK, now let's assemble the front Cup rotors and mate the hat to the rotors with bobbins and attachment bolts



These bobbins have a slit on one end only. My PCCB's bobbin had it's slit facing the front of the car and that's what I decided to use to orient the bobbins





I hand tighten the attachment bolts first with 10 mm socket





Factory torque spec on these 10 mm attachment bolts are 9.7 NM which is only 7.15 lb/ft .. and ten of these small 10 mm bolts are suppose to hold the rotor to the hat!? OMG! Oh well, I got scared and used 8 lb/ft instead lol

I dab a small paint on each bolt after I torque them. I alternate the the bolts by going from opposite ends to make sure the hat sits evenly on the rotor



Cup rotors all assembled. They are super aggressive looking! They look good enough to frame it as an art piece lol



Notice the orientation of the cross drill holes and the cooling vent. This is the right (passenger side) rotor with the arrow like central cooling vent pointing toward the front of the car



Back side

mikymu

OK, let's get the front PCCB off. First remove the cap from the brake reservoir and make sure you don't have too much brake fluid to start out with. Check the brake reservoir often when you spread the caliper pistons to prevent overflow. Jack up both front wheels and turn the side you are working on away from you to expose the back end of the brake caliper



Remove the brake pad thickness sensors by gently pull on the wires and use a small flat screw driver to pry it out





Detach the brake line bracket from the back of the caliper be removing the 10 mm bolt



Remove the 13 mm bolt which holds the large retaining spring clip from the back of the caliper



Press in on the retaining spring hard near the clip either with your thumb or a piece of wood and gently tap on the end of the clip by placing a short socket extension on the inner side with a small hammer. Take care not to bang on the brake line or caliper ... or your thumb lol



Pull the pads out once retaining spring is removed and spread the caliper pistons apart. I use Giro Disc spreader which made the job super easy





Use 10 mm allen socket to remove the two large caliper retaining bolts





Carefully place the caliper on a box and avoid excessive twisting of the brake lines or hitting the caliper /brake line against your precious PCCB lol



Remove the two rotor retaining Philip screws - mine literally fall on to my hand - not torqued?



This is what it looks like without the PCCB



Comparison look of the PCCB next to steel Cup rotor





PCCB rotor is thicker than steel Cup rotor



Install the steel Cup rotors. It's a good idea to apply some anti-seize on the two 10 mm rotor retaining screws and lightly hand tighten them - don't strip the bolts.



WOW!! All we need to do is slap on the brake pads and we are done for the front. This is about the easiest mod I ever did on a Porsche .... It's can't be that easy right? Yup .... Oh lord have mercy on the brake pads lol

mikymu

Houston, we have a problem! The Pagid RS 29 2707 pads is too wide for the steel Cup rotors!!?? It is suppose to work for the 380 mm front Porsche rotor and it fits the PCCB just fine. It is so wide it actually touch the hat of the Cup rotor and it has not even make contact with the caliper stop.




Back side fits fine



Plenty of space between the inner edge of the brake pad and the hat of the PCCB



OK, this is a real retarded way to find out the hat of the steel Cup rotor is larger than PCCB. I can grind down the inner edge of the brake pads to fit but it will be another retarded move - it's just too much to grind. i had to drop everything and call couple people for answer. Craig at Rennstore and also Peter at TRG was gracefully enough to help. It turns out Pagid make a brake pad specifically for Cup rotor and it's a bit narrow compare with the standard pads. Only if I knew this earlier. It is the RS29 8004 pads with "scallop" inner edge.

OK, pick up a set of the Pagid RS 29 8004 Cup rotor specific pads and it fits ... but not by much though. it was market to have 5 mm space between the inner edge of the pad and the hat but I estimate it's only 2-3 mm the most



It's even closer once installed - Too close for my comfort



I had to bring out my belt grinder to take off the small metal lip at the inner edge of the pad to give it another 1mm of breathing room





Inner edge is all smooth out



More room is better even if it's an additional 1 mm lol



It is super tight fit on the Cup car itself! Notice the small hair line crack on the Cup car rotor's cross drill holes? lol



I sand down the very edge of the pads on each side which is suppose to help quiet the pads - it did not lol. This is not a necessary step by all means



Put the caliper back on and tighten the two 10 mm allen bolts to 63 lb/ft. Porsche call for replacement of these bolts but many re-sue them including Porsche mechanic. You will have to make the call.

Place the spring back and insert the spring slip by firmly pressing down the spring then thread the clip back. Make sure the outer end of the clip sit fat against the caliper. It has two flat grooves. Tighten the 13 mm bot to 23 lb/ft and clip in the pad thickness sensors. make sure you also tighten the 10 mm bolt that secure the brake line to the caliper carrier - Don't over tighten the bolt. Press down on the brake pedal couple times to compress the caliper piston against the brake pads



Now there is another problem .... I noticed the brake pads barely fit especially the inner one. It turns out the Cup rotor sits just so slightly toward the inside - it is not centered like the PCCB rotor



The rotors was so tight I can barely rotate it. I drove the car anyway thinking the pads will just get grind down after two stop signs ... yeah right! The rotor got so hot from pressing firmly against the front rotors which makes the steering wheel shutter I limp home after 1 miles of test drive and had to remove the front pads for more modification

Off to the grinder I go. I had to grind down about 1 mm on the inner pad to make it fit. I also can not use any metal plates on the back of the inner pad to help quiet the brake



Apply some brake quiet on the back side of the front pads and install the pads again! This whole issue with the front pads are super frustrating but none the less challenging. I think all the problem solving helped sharpen my mind as to delay on set of Alzheimer disease by three months lol

mikymu

Thank god the rear rotor swap is super easy! No pad issue what so ever! lol

First release e-brake. Remove the pad wear sensor wire and e-brake cable from the clips on the back of the caliper





Remove the two 10 mm allen screws and carefully pull the caliper off and place on a box as not to stretch the brake line



Remove the pads one at a time by pulling it off the stops on the caliper - it's easy.



Take care not to stretch the pad wear sensor wires and take the first clip on plate off to access the pad sensor



Gently pull on the pad wear sensor wire just enough to use a flat head screw drive to work both sensors off. It will come off if yank on the wire hard enough but you will risk breaking the wire and Mr. Porsche will charge you $100 each for replacement lol



Spread the caliper piston apart



Remove the PCCB rotor by loosen the two Phillip screw. Both the 5 mm spacer and PCCB rotor will come off easily



This is what the 5 mm spacer and the rear wheel/caliper carrier with e-brake looks like



Install the rear TT steel rotor and secure the rotor retaining screw. Again, it is a good idea to use some anti-seize on the retaining screw and don't over tighten the screws



There are only enough space for one of the metal plate backing or you will encounter the same issue with the front brakes. I use the one that clip on the back of the brake pad and apply some brake quiet



carefully clip both wear sensors back in the brake pads. Install the caliper and tighten each 10 mm allen bolts to 63 lb/ft. Replace these bolts if you chose to and secure the pad wear sensor wires and e-brake cable on the back of the caliper. Press down on the brake pedal couple time to seat the pads then you are done for the rear brakes!! I also sand down the edge of the rear pads a bit hoping to quiet the pads - it is not a necessary step.

mikymu

This is what the front steel Cup rotor and rear TT rotor looks like after install







What is the the weight penalty going from PCCB to steel rotors? let's take a look:

Front steel Cup rotor weigh about 21-22 lbs. My bathroom scale is not the best lol



Front PCCB 12 lbs which is 10 lbs lighter than Cup steel rotor



Rear TT steel rotor: 21-22 lbs. Just like front steel Cup rotor



Rear PCCB 12 lbs also just like front PCCB



Combine weight of front and rear steel rotors about 88 lbs





Combine PCCB front and rear about 48-49 lbs so the total weight penalty is about 40 lbs or 10 lbs each wheel going form PCCB to steel





Driving impression? I can feel the extra weight of the steel brakes. The car has lost some of it's peep on the "instant jump" on hard acceleration. This may not be a bad thing on the track so the car is not so jumpy with hard acceleration especially in turns.

Breaking difference? I will shed more light on that after track day at Infinion this Saturday. I had a chance to brake hard during bedding process - that is very brisk stop from 60 mph down to 10 mph 8 times in a roll. The car can definitely stop a-lot faster but it seems to be more controlled instead of the on and off feel of the PCCB. There were no fade what so ever.

I hope you find this post helpful and a good reference on what it takes to go from PCCB to steel rotors. It is not an easy mod as you can see a-lot of modification is needed when it comes to front brake pads. You can use this post as a general guide to either replace brake pads or worn out rotors. I learned a-lot in the process and I may try more aggressive pads on my PCCB next year if I am brave enough. Will give more feedback at that time.

This is what the front cup steel rotor and rear TT rotor look like on my RS. IMHO, not bad looking at all. Yes, those are my wife's PCCB shoes in the back ground

Jon70

Fantastic post. I really appreciate the time and detail you spent on this.

sws1

WOW - That is some post. Incredible.

Of course, I won't be trying this myself.

Snowboarder54

Yet another great post!! Thanks.

zmann

In hindsight, wouldn't it have been easier to have gone with the direct Brembo replacements? A lot less hassle and a great product. That is what I used to swap out my PCCBs. Then the standard Pagid P29/19s fit fine.

On Pole

Great post!!

savyboy

Mike- Best tech post of of all time award.

Dude- I LOVE your pad spreader! That is fantastic!

Full and complete kudos to you Sir.

MarekN

I also enjoyed the funny lines in there. This post together with uploading the photos and writing the text must have taken at least four hours, maybe more.

Please look up "ice mode ABS" problem a few days back. Maybe this is what was happening to you also.

jimxyz

Another excellent post - thanks
Is the house next door to you for sale? I need a neighbor who does these kinds of projects!

drqiman

Great post. I wonder why didn't you upgrade to SS braided brake lines?

_rocket

Only the latest (2010) Cup car is a wide body. Previous Cups were not wide body (apart from Cup S and RSR). What year was the Cup car you inspected?

It has been reported that Supercup last a full season on one set of brakes (pccb).


993 part number? What, at 380mm diameter??


Why didn’t you try to centre the rotor by using a spacer? Does the Cup car use the same caliper and upright and if so, it obviously uses a spacer. Try to find that part number. I think grinding down the pad contact material is not good practice if you ask me.


Excellent post. Thanks.