PCCB to GT3 Cup steel rotors - bitter sweet conversion
02-26-2010, 04:50 PM
#46
Former Vendor
Bedding in procedure for ceramics?
Exactly the same as for steel.
~~~~~~~~
From Pagid:
RACING PAD BEDDING
PLEASE NOTE:
IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE BEDDING IN PROCEDURES ARE BEING DONE ONLY ON
A RACE TRACK. PAGID RACING MATERIAL IS NOT LEGAL FOR STREET USE.
1. GEOMETRIC ALIGNMENT OF PAD SURFACE TO BRAKE DISC BASIC BEDDING IN
3-4 stops with light to medium brake pressure from approximately 150 km/h (90 MPH)
to approximately 100 km/h (65 MPH).
Distance between each brake stop is approximately 300-400 meters (300 to 400 yards).
The pads should not reach temperatures above 300-400 Centigrade (550 to 750 Fahrenheit)
during bedding in.
Blocking of the air ducts might be helpful to reach appropriate temperatures quicker.
2. IMMEDIATELY AFTER BEDDING IN AT HIGH SPEED
One stop with medium to heavy brake pressure without allowing the brakes to lock from
approximately 180 km/h (110 MPH) to approximately 100 km/h (65 MPH).
Recovery stops with light brake pressure 2-3 times.
Repeat the high speed stops, including recovery stops, 1-2 times.
Allow a cooling-off distance of approximately 500 m (500 yards) between high speed stops.
Exactly the same as for steel.
~~~~~~~~
From Pagid:
RACING PAD BEDDING
PLEASE NOTE:
IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE BEDDING IN PROCEDURES ARE BEING DONE ONLY ON
A RACE TRACK. PAGID RACING MATERIAL IS NOT LEGAL FOR STREET USE.
1. GEOMETRIC ALIGNMENT OF PAD SURFACE TO BRAKE DISC BASIC BEDDING IN
3-4 stops with light to medium brake pressure from approximately 150 km/h (90 MPH)
to approximately 100 km/h (65 MPH).
Distance between each brake stop is approximately 300-400 meters (300 to 400 yards).
The pads should not reach temperatures above 300-400 Centigrade (550 to 750 Fahrenheit)
during bedding in.
Blocking of the air ducts might be helpful to reach appropriate temperatures quicker.
2. IMMEDIATELY AFTER BEDDING IN AT HIGH SPEED
One stop with medium to heavy brake pressure without allowing the brakes to lock from
approximately 180 km/h (110 MPH) to approximately 100 km/h (65 MPH).
Recovery stops with light brake pressure 2-3 times.
Repeat the high speed stops, including recovery stops, 1-2 times.
Allow a cooling-off distance of approximately 500 m (500 yards) between high speed stops.
02-26-2010, 05:20 PM
#47
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Hi Craig,
With the procedure above, you will smell the brakes, when doing so with iron rotors. I did the same procedure (documented by Pagid) with my PCCB the first time (5 years ago), and assumed it was done, but brakes didn't have the progressive feeling of my stock brakes (iron). My car came with iron rotors, and I swapped to PCCB rotors and yellow calipers.
I did the procedure again at a later time but kept doing the high speed braking many times, until I could finally smell the brakes, let them cool down, and that's it. Next day, the brakes were feeling a lot better. Since then, I use this process with new pads.
Done it at least 5 times with the GT3, GT3 RS, and Scud, and so far it works pretty good.
The exchange of pad material with the CCB rotors seems to take longer, which is the purpose of bedding in the pads.
Disclaimer: bedding pads on public streets is not recommended.
With the procedure above, you will smell the brakes, when doing so with iron rotors. I did the same procedure (documented by Pagid) with my PCCB the first time (5 years ago), and assumed it was done, but brakes didn't have the progressive feeling of my stock brakes (iron). My car came with iron rotors, and I swapped to PCCB rotors and yellow calipers.
I did the procedure again at a later time but kept doing the high speed braking many times, until I could finally smell the brakes, let them cool down, and that's it. Next day, the brakes were feeling a lot better. Since then, I use this process with new pads.
Done it at least 5 times with the GT3, GT3 RS, and Scud, and so far it works pretty good.
The exchange of pad material with the CCB rotors seems to take longer, which is the purpose of bedding in the pads.
Disclaimer: bedding pads on public streets is not recommended.
02-26-2010, 07:00 PM
#48
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Interesting, I ran both RS19 and RS29 with PCCB in 996 and 997 GT3. Once in a while I would get on ice mode, but learned to stay away from it by braking smoothly and avoiding braking over bumps (ice mode is invoked by the ABS), the ice mode happens with PCCB and iron rotors.
Did you bed in the RS29 on the PCCB? It seems that you missed such important step, based on what you experienced. It takes a good 40 minutes to be able to bed the pads with PCCB, and about 10 minutes to do the same with iron rotors.
RS19 and RS29 are the only pads I used in the GT3 and GT3 RS for around 6 years.
Moreover, my Scuderia (standard with CCB) is using F430 Challenge brake pads (Challenge is standard with CCB), the rear pads are made by Pagid, and stamped: RS19.
Did you bed in the RS29 on the PCCB? It seems that you missed such important step, based on what you experienced. It takes a good 40 minutes to be able to bed the pads with PCCB, and about 10 minutes to do the same with iron rotors.
RS19 and RS29 are the only pads I used in the GT3 and GT3 RS for around 6 years.
Moreover, my Scuderia (standard with CCB) is using F430 Challenge brake pads (Challenge is standard with CCB), the rear pads are made by Pagid, and stamped: RS19.
Hey Rad
I had high hope for the RS29 pads since they felt great during and after bedding and I bed the pads properly twice. I am pretty **** when it come to bedding pads. Well, I notice something was not right even on the first lap out at Laguna. Coming up turn 2 at 120 mph, I slam on the brakes ... it will bite first then quickly lose braking power so I had to really step down hard on the brakes again. it was distracting say the least and after couple laps the brakes REALLY moan and squeal and I thought I killed my PCCB and luckily everything was OK. The brakes was so hot after first session I had a hard time checking tire pressure. It never improve the rest of the day. Back to steel ...
02-26-2010, 10:39 PM
#49
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Hey Rad
I had high hope for the RS29 pads since they felt great during and after bedding and I bed the pads properly twice. I am pretty **** when it come to bedding pads. Well, I notice something was not right even on the first lap out at Laguna. Coming up turn 2 at 120 mph, I slam on the brakes ... it will bite first then quickly lose braking power so I had to really step down hard on the brakes again. it was distracting say the least and after couple laps the brakes REALLY moan and squeal and I thought I killed my PCCB and luckily everything was OK. The brakes was so hot after first session I had a hard time checking tire pressure. It never improve the rest of the day. Back to steel ...
I had high hope for the RS29 pads since they felt great during and after bedding and I bed the pads properly twice. I am pretty **** when it come to bedding pads. Well, I notice something was not right even on the first lap out at Laguna. Coming up turn 2 at 120 mph, I slam on the brakes ... it will bite first then quickly lose braking power so I had to really step down hard on the brakes again. it was distracting say the least and after couple laps the brakes REALLY moan and squeal and I thought I killed my PCCB and luckily everything was OK. The brakes was so hot after first session I had a hard time checking tire pressure. It never improve the rest of the day. Back to steel ...
$8,000 buys a nice set of front 380mm and rear 355mm Stoptech STR, they have been already tested in Racing conditions in the SCCA Speed World Challenge GT, they are light (I posted some weight figures provided to me by one of the vendors), and they look nice as well.
Sell your PCCB rotors and calipers, sell your iron rotors, install a track worthy brake system, and don't worry about resale, nobody is paying a significant premium for GT3 or GT3 RS with PCCB. You have a Green GT3 RS, pretty exclusive already, so the color of the calipers won't determine if your car sells in the future or not.
More Horror stories about CCB, the F430 Challenge runs about 8 races per season, some teams are running 3 sets of CCB per season, doing sprint races. A Ferrari bulletin requires dealers to replace CCB rotors every other change of brake pads, talk about a rip-off.
02-26-2010, 11:12 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
funny you should ask this question, I was wondering as well, since the '10 now
has matching 380mm fronts, I wonder if the steels are now interchangable?
minimally it may be possible to take the steel rotors (if they are the same thickness) and attach them to the PCCB hats (assuming they are compatible)
and then mount them on the PCCB calipers ... hopefully they would not
encounter the same problems that the OP encountered or require the smaller
anulus pads for the brembo's
I wonder if someone with a '10 steel & PCCB could measure the rotor thickess?
Also, do the rear steels on the '10 have floating/detachable hats?
has matching 380mm fronts, I wonder if the steels are now interchangable?
minimally it may be possible to take the steel rotors (if they are the same thickness) and attach them to the PCCB hats (assuming they are compatible)
and then mount them on the PCCB calipers ... hopefully they would not
encounter the same problems that the OP encountered or require the smaller
anulus pads for the brembo's
I wonder if someone with a '10 steel & PCCB could measure the rotor thickess?
Also, do the rear steels on the '10 have floating/detachable hats?
Two things to consider, the '10 steel rotors have the rings and hats cast as one so they can't be unbolted and bolted to PCCB hats from earlier models. Also with the centrelock hubs, the hats would be different to accomadate these and therefore quite likely to be differ from the 5 stud hubs of before...
02-27-2010, 01:40 AM
#51
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I keep reading bad experiences about PCCB and track use, I have experienced some of them. Seriously, with the lightweight cast iron 2-piece rotors and forged aluminum caliper kits available in the market right now, I'm having a harder time justifying PCCB.
$8,000 buys a nice set of front 380mm and rear 355mm Stoptech STR, they have been already tested in Racing conditions in the SCCA Speed World Challenge GT, they are light (I posted some weight figures provided to me by one of the vendors), and they look nice as well.
Sell your PCCB rotors and calipers, sell your iron rotors, install a track worthy brake system, and don't worry about resale, nobody is paying a significant premium for GT3 or GT3 RS with PCCB. You have a Green GT3 RS, pretty exclusive already, so the color of the calipers won't determine if your car sells in the future or not.
More Horror stories about CCB, the F430 Challenge runs about 8 races per season, some teams are running 3 sets of CCB per season, doing sprint races. A Ferrari bulletin requires dealers to replace CCB rotors every other change of brake pads, talk about a rip-off.
$8,000 buys a nice set of front 380mm and rear 355mm Stoptech STR, they have been already tested in Racing conditions in the SCCA Speed World Challenge GT, they are light (I posted some weight figures provided to me by one of the vendors), and they look nice as well.
Sell your PCCB rotors and calipers, sell your iron rotors, install a track worthy brake system, and don't worry about resale, nobody is paying a significant premium for GT3 or GT3 RS with PCCB. You have a Green GT3 RS, pretty exclusive already, so the color of the calipers won't determine if your car sells in the future or not.
More Horror stories about CCB, the F430 Challenge runs about 8 races per season, some teams are running 3 sets of CCB per season, doing sprint races. A Ferrari bulletin requires dealers to replace CCB rotors every other change of brake pads, talk about a rip-off.
RS29 works well on street with PCCB but can not handle the same amount of braking required on the track if it's clamping ceramic rotors. I love to have a Stoptech STR system but it's too much $$$ for me at this time. My humble steel Cup rotors does the job well so I will stay with it a while longer. I am looking at the option of selling my PCCB ...
I love your Scudaria and love to get one someday but the maintenance cost will kill me like you have mentioned. I can only do so much DIY lol
03-20-2010, 10:26 AM
#52
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I use anti-seize on the two small 10 mm hots for the rotor hat - I think it is Loctite
I've seen people also applying anti seize to lug nuts. Any comments on this from anyone?
Last edited by kush07; 03-20-2010 at 11:17 AM. Reason: formatting
03-20-2010, 11:38 AM
#53
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03-20-2010, 03:43 PM
#54
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aren't anti seize and loctite essentially used for opposing purposes? One to lock threads and one to lubricate. It looks like you used anti seize to attach the rotor to the hub. The poster was asking if you used loctite when attaching the hats.
I've seen people also applying anti seize to lug nuts. Any comments on this from anyone?
I've seen people also applying anti seize to lug nuts. Any comments on this from anyone?
03-20-2010, 05:33 PM
#55
I have to say thank you too, I am fitting up these brakes to my 928 and getting reliable info is difficult. I am going to run the 355 mm disc as I only have 18" wheels but lots of info was useable. Thanks!!!
Greg
Greg
03-20-2010, 05:51 PM
#56
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01-19-2013, 11:21 PM
#59
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01-19-2013, 11:25 PM
#60
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997.2 GT3 steel 2-piece rears = light
Dont have PET with me now but you can find all the schematics on Autoatlanta.com.